Giving up on M135.........

[Brad]

Well friends, I appreciate all the advice you all have given me over the years as I struggled with my Dads 1952 GMC M135. My most recent subject being "help finding brake parts".. I found what I thought I needed. I rebuilt the rear whell cylinders and replaced the four on the front wheels just in the last few weeks. And last summer I had the air / hydro cylinder rebuilt.
Problem has been eversince having that rebuilt that the brakes kept locking up. All the wheel cylinders were all bad so we rebuilt or replaced them.
But alas, the brakes just keep locking up. I adjust them, bleed them, do it all over and over. Take the wheels apart and check, dont matter keep getting tite.
No good at all. Now I actuallt have all the wheels adjusted as loose as possible. Go for a ride and I can feel them dragging, though not completley locked up. Come back and feel each wheel and they are almost tooo hot to touch.
There is something wrong and I just dont know what. And I just do not have the energy left to continue this never ending toil. I have had enough.
Problem is this is my Dads truck and he has had a stroke and its the only thing he is interested in. It would probably break his heart to get rid of it but I just cannot justify continuing to spend my Mothers and his money on this thing.
I really dont even know what is wrong with it. After changeing everything we have and all this work I do not have any idea what to do next????
Is there anyone on here from Western Pa that might be able to look at it and KNOW what is wrong???
If not, I am done with it?
Thanks again for all the help.
Brad Foust

 

[marchplumber]

Hang in there Brad! Heck there are guys on here that can build and repair some amazing things, some of them NEVER existed till these guys BUILT 'em. I'm sure someone will chime in. There are other forums that deal with the older trucks also. Have ya tried them? Tried some of the commercial builders? If it's the only thing your Pops like, give her a chance. Stop. Rest. Get something to eat and a good nights sleep. Things will look different in the morning. Heck, someone could chime in and KNOW what your problem is. Prayer never hurt either!

God bless you!
Tony

 

[rosco]

Yeah --- Hang in there. In fact, I bet two dollars to a donut, that the problem is that brake booster! If it drives and runs, and you did all that work, you about have it done. Your probably getting pressure leaking by, in the booster, that causes your brakes to start dragging, or go on. Boosters can be touchy. Just might have to give her another look. That is the only thing, that will cause ALL your brakes to go on at once. The classis failure with them is that when you apply the brakes, they won't go off. Then the tempory remedy is to crack a bleeder screw somewhere, let off the pressure, then get home, trying not to apply the brakes again. Do this check. Go drive it. (first, properly adjust your brakes, the way they should be), apply your brakes pretty hard, so you can feel they are dragging good. The go crack a rear wheel bleeder, and see if they arent free again. If they free up, its your booster.

Good Luck

 

[Brad]

Hey guys, I appreciate all the encouragement.
And yes, I think it is the booster, air pac. Thing is, last summer I just paid a few hundred bucks of my Dads money to have it rebuilt, and its not working. I just cant justify keeping going on. Especially when I am not sure.
And tomorrow is Meorial Day. Well thats why I been busting my butt to get this thing going. There are really only few days when it's meaningful to even have this thing.
But this truck otherwise is really a solid good looking machine. No rust and real clean. All new canvas and seat covers, glass, good rubber. And it has the rare troop transport type bed. It a good truck other than these brakes. But every thing about working on this is hard. Its all heavy and big. I am a decent mechanis but I just am not in good enough physical shape to work on this thing constantly myself.
As I was taking the wheel cylinders off and apart I was actually glad to see how they were corroded inside because it tricked me into believing that that was why the wheels were locking up. Butt I knew in my mind all along its that lousy air pac. At least thats what I think it is.
Butt believe me, I appreciate all the help you all been giving me.
Take care and thanks

 

[cpf240]

Who rebuilt the booster? Did they offer a warranty on their work? Can they bench test it? At the very least, I'd expect any decent shop to work with you on it. As you say, it sounds like you have covered all the bases.

Good luck!

 

[Ferroequinologist]

Here's a thought-

I had the exact same problem with my XM818- and it was just the rod in the MC off the pedal. It was adjust just a little bit too tight, so when you used the brakes, they wouldn't fully release. After driving it around and stopping or slowing down some, they would be dragging.

If it happens while you are just rolling down the road, with them gradually coming on, then it is most definitely the air pack.

 

[jdknech]

is it possible that a brake hose is collapsing, causing the brakes not to release? is it all 6 wheels, or only the front or rear? the airpack (if that is the problem) is not that hard to rebuild, i did one last year... just print out the pages in the TM on rebuilding it, and start with a clean work bench.. take your time, and if you get frustrated, walk away, and come back later...

but whatever you do, DO NOT GIVE UP on it, you will NEVER forgive yourself if you do... I know how frustrating it can be, me and my dads project was a 1952 dodge firetruck, it was the truck he operated when he was a firefighter, plus it was the first truck the local FD ever had.. it never got done (i wish i had put more effort into it) and he passed in december.. my mom gave me the truck, and i plan to finish restoring it in his honor.. so hang in there.. its worth it in the long run

 

[NDT]

Make sure the brake lock switch to the left of the steering wheel is turned off! Otherwise agreed, it is the air-pack. Do not let this beat you!

 

[m1010plowboy]

NDT could have it Brad. Page 61/62 of 9-8024 says... When the switch is turned to ON position and service brakes applied, an electrical selenoid-operated valve in master cylinder outlet line acts to prevent the return of brake fluid to master cylinder, thus holding the vehicle hydraulics brakes applied.

Something could be keeping that valve on, it could be faulty or you might be able to solve it with a cleaning or a flip of the switch.

She's a stubborn pony.

 

[Brad]

What a bunch of great guys!!
I hate to admit being beat by this. Not for me but for Dad. Just yeterday morning as I was removing a front wheel for the second time my brother brought Dad outside to watch. He cant talk but was sure trying to tell me what to do. I spent about the last five years with him under and over this truck and its been allot of work, butt also allot of fun working with him. But now that he cant help its just a job.
Anyway, last year I removed that vselonoid valve in the line. And yesterday we actually loosened the rubber line to one of the wheels and it made no differance. I think the rubber lines are ok.
Every time we would hit the brakes it would take 20 or more seconds to be able to turn the wheel. Butt then I went under and cracked a bleeder on that air pack. After that it never locked up as tite. Still dragging but not locked up.
I have these adjusters on every wheek backed off all but one half turn. Still they drag.
We were just able to do the local Memorial Day parade. It actually begins about a quarter mile from home here and only runs about a mile or so. So we tried it. There are a couple down hill parts and the truck would hardly coast.
The top bleeder on the air pack was stripped so I had to J-B weld it permanent closed, so it cant be bled. But the lower one works When I cracked it there was no sign of air in it just fluid.
Once last year we tried by-passing the air pac but could not push the pedal hard enough to stop the truck. But now that I have four of the wheels either rebuilt or replaced with good wheel cylinders I wonder if I might try again?? Any thoughts??
Finally, could that air pac be corroded?? (Although I have had this problem ever sinc I got it back but thought it was the wheel cylinders). Is there anything I could but in there to loosen it up?? Some kind of chemical treatment??
I have some air brake anti freeze?? But where would I put that in at???
Again guys, I really appreciate the help.
Brad

 

[NDT]

Again, overhaul the air pack and throw the J-B welded part in the trash. It can be corroded, especially if you are using DOT 3 regular brake fluid. Your dad may not be able to express it, but riding in that parade in the truck you fixed must have made him happy and proud as can be!

 

[Brad]

Friends,
I cant throw the part away as I dont have another to replace it with. I had sent two units to the rebuilder last year and asked them to make me one good one from the two. I knew that the upper bleeder port was bad on them both at the time, as I remember it.
If I had another case I would try and replace it myself. I just cannot freely spend any more on this without being sure.
We are now hiring help to keep Dad & Mom happy in their home and there is no extra for this truck. But it is a very theroputic thing for Dad.
If anyone has any ideas, maybe an additive that might free this thing up?
Someone mentioned DOT 3 brake fluid is a problem?? Is there something else I could try?? What kind should it have??
Thanks all, I am really stumped and pretty disgusted.

 

[zout]

If you look up in the dictionary it has my name next to Disguisted.

You have quite a few folks here now trying to help but one of the biggest things I can advise is - park it. Leave it totally alone for a while - its paid for from what I take and it costs you nothing just to let it sit for a while.

Get out and get other stuff done and get your mind off the truck and brake issues - yes they will still be there when you come back - but at least you will not be in the shape to start taking a baseball bat to it (see my first sentence).

Before you lay hands on it again - just find some answers to most of your questions one at a time here.

Learning patience is one of the hardest things you can do - you really sound overwhelmed and worse sound like your under the gun - not a good combination.

 

[Brad]

Well thats all good advice indeed. As I have already decided to stay away from if for at least a few days, or even weeks. But I do want to get it right befor the 4th of July.
I have a good old M1 Garand and lots of AP and if it were mine I might just do away with it. At least sometimes thats how I feel.
Take care friends and thanks.

 

[M215]

I suspect the air pak is the problem. The Bendix air pak rebuild kit used on the 5 ton M51 / M813 series is the same rebuild kit used on the M135 / M211 with the exception of one rubber seal. Not sure of current pricies, but several years ago rebuild kits sold on ebay for $25-50, I have rebuilt several with no problems. Get rid of the Dot 3 brake fluid and replace it with Dot 5 silicon. You can purchase 1 gallon containers on-line for $50 +/-. Our M215 brakes have never been a problem since replacing / rebuilding the entire brake system and using Dot 5 almost 10 years ago.
Good luck, Karl

 

[Scar59]

Brad,
Like a lot of the guys on this site, we have never met. That truck in man made hence it can be repaired by a man. All the above advice and tech knowledge
is spot on. Do not let this truck get to you. Park it and leave it alone. Find the need parts kit to rebuild the air pack minus JB Weld. There is something real simple that is hanging you up. Save the M1 and the AP for another rainy day.You and your folks are in our prayers. Keep us posted when you decide to work on it again.
B Regards
Joe C

 

[DeucesWild11]

I'm not familiar with the M135 but I also suspect the airpack as I had the same problem with my truck and rebuilt the airpack and now problem solved!

Hang in there and as others have said anything can be rebuilt. After I got my brakes all working great my rear diff shredded up. Never knew why but try replacing an 800lb rear end by yourself.. A little bit of time too cool off from a project always works for me..

Good luck!

 

[Brad]

Well friends, I have located the invoice paperwork from last year when I had the air pac rebuilt by a firm called "Precision Rebuilders". It cost us a total of $381.59. To us, thats allot of money, but I guess if we "want to play-we gotta pay".
But we shouldnt have to pay twice?
I guess I'll take this thing out early next week and see if I can find an obvious problem.
I am going to call them and see if they will, or can, at least bench test it. It has been about one year since they did it and I doubt there is any warranty? Even though this truck probably doesnt have 50 miles on it since then.
Here is my question. Is there anything specific that I should be looking for to identify a problem????
Thanks

 

[Scar59]

That's the spirit! Explain to "Precision Rebuilders" that this unit has > 50 miles on it and it needs to be checked.
Hopefully it looks like it did when they had it. Also explain that the wrath of SS membership will be upon them if they fail to do the right thing.
Good luck
JC

 

[Brad]

I was able to reach Precision rebuilders and had a good discussion with "Tim". He made allot of sense and I can send him the unit if needed.
But he gave me some pointers of how to determine for sure where the probem is.
Of course it shows up at the wheels. But one must start at the opposite end to find out the cause. Right at the very beginning at the master cylinder. If it is not allowing the fluid back into the resiviour when I take my foot off the pedal that is where the first problem could be.
We discussed how to determine that, and how to move on to the air pac and isolate it to determine if it is the problem.
So far seem good to deal with. We'll see. I might have just waited tooo long.
Thanks all