GL-1 Gear Oil Alternative

[rustystud]

The transmission and the transfer case have no pumps and work in fine fashion when the nasties are allowed to drop out of suspension.
Don't get confused about it all.
Just put straight 30 or 40 weight in it which will not cause problems and alleviate problems, hot or cold.
Gee, did We beat this one all to death yet?

post 286 in here and many other places too
https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?85007-M35a2-oils/page19

If you just filled it with pee it would still work Ok for a while, but think about what it is. Think 55 Chevy gearbox.
Gee, how many gears are you flat-shifting into?
If you want it to last another 50 years than search around these forums,
It is the BEST place..............................

Come on Frank. Don't lead anyone astray here. You know better.
There is tremendous differences between a "engine" oil and a transmission gear oil. Especially one that works with "yellow metals" . You didn't even get into the whole "shear" and "compression" values of the oil which are vitally important in any gear oil. That is why I only recommend the newer "Shell" 50W Synthetic Gear oils. The stuff works great and stops all those nasty little problems the Spicer can have like "Seizing" the 2nd gear and the 4th gear to the mainshaft. Actually the 4th gear seizes to the "bushing" which is locked into the mainshaft. Then it spins the crap out of the shaft. All those problems come from faulty gear oil or the wrong gear oil. As far as the transfer-case goes. A good 80/100W gear oil works just fine. Now if your going to be shifting on the fly with the transfer-case then I would again use the Shell 50W synthetic gear oil.
Remember larger gears need different types of oil compared to "small" little units like the 55 Chevy had. You will never see a differential use a 30W or 40W oil unless the mechanic is a total fool. Larger gears need better compression and shear values. Right now there is no "large" truck transmission using anything under 50W gear oil in it. Look it up. I just did. 50W seems to be the "magic" oil weight for larger transmissions right now. I would stay with that.

(last sentence removed)

 

[Katavic918]

Thanks for the info Rusty. Could you post up which one you recommend?

 

[frank8003]

The photo is of what I put in transfer case and transmission in the Deuce. Alleviated syncro problems, noises, hard shifting, needing double clutching, and other problems. I went all the way to tractor supply far from here one day but that day they didn't have any non-detergent 40W or 30W. I bought the Mag-1 on-line.


https://mag1.com/products/industrial-greases/non-detergent-lubricating-oil/
Now I don't find the 40W anymore.

That was after I wrote myself a treatise (08072015) for myself to get out of confusion. But you can have it now.
View attachment gear oil GL-5 confusion to clarity.pdf

 

[Slate]

Come on Frank. Don't lead anyone astray here. You know better.
There is tremendous differences between a "engine" oil and a transmission gear oil. Especially one that works with "yellow metals" . You didn't even get into the whole "shear" and "compression" values of the oil which are vitally important in any gear oil. That is why I only recommend the newer "Shell" 50W Synthetic Gear oils. The stuff works great and stops all those nasty little problems the Spicer can have like "Seizing" the 2nd gear and the 4th gear to the mainshaft. Actually the 4th gear seizes to the "bushing" which is locked into the mainshaft. Then it spins the crap out of the shaft. All those problems come from faulty gear oil or the wrong gear oil. As far as the transfer-case goes. A good 80/100W gear oil works just fine. Now if your going to be shifting on the fly with the transfer-case then I would again use the Shell 50W synthetic gear oil.
Remember larger gears need different types of oil compared to "small" little units like the 55 Chevy had. You will never see a differential use a 30W or 40W oil unless the mechanic is a total fool. Larger gears need better compression and shear values. Right now there is no "large" truck transmission using anything under 50W gear oil in it. Look it up. I just did. 50W seems to be the "magic" oil weight for larger transmissions right now. I would stay with that.

(last sentence removed)

So would the 50w Lucas synthetic be any good?

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[Floridianson]

I ended up with the Chevron ESI 40 weight in the trans.
https://www.chevronlubricants.ca/en_ca/home/products/delo-trans-esi-sae-40.html

 

[Slate]

I ended up with the Chevron ESI 40 weight in the trans.
https://www.chevronlubricants.ca/en_ca/home/products/delo-trans-esi-sae-40.html

Thanks, I live in West Texas. It is over 95F most of the year. Makes me wonder if 50 is better for the heat.

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[rustystud]

I ended up with the Chevron ESI 40 weight in the trans.
https://www.chevronlubricants.ca/en_ca/home/products/delo-trans-esi-sae-40.html

That is an excellent oil, though I would go with the "Delo Syn-Trans XE" SAE50 gear oil myself. Like I said earlier all the major transmission manufacturers recommend at least a 50W oil.

 

[rustystud]

Thanks, I live in West Texas. It is over 95F most of the year. Makes me wonder if 50 is better for the heat.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

Yes the 50W oil would be better. That is why the article Floridianson mentioned also had the "Delo Syn-Trans XE" SAE50 oil at the end.

 

[rustystud]

So would the 50w Lucas synthetic be any good?

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I have never used Lucas oil before. From what I have read about it, it doesn't stand-up to the major gear oils. Shell, Delo, Mobile are major suppliers to transmission manufacturers . I would stay with them.

 

[gringeltaube]

...................That is why I only recommend the newer "Shell" 50W Synthetic Gear oils. The stuff works great and stops all those nasty little problems the Spicer can have like "Seizing" the 2nd gear and the 4th gear to the mainshaft. Actually the 4th gear seizes to the "bushing" which is locked into the mainshaft. Then it spins the crap out of the shaft. All those problems come from faulty gear oil or the wrong gear oil.................................... 50W seems to be the "magic" oil weight for larger transmissions right now. I would stay with that.

Only 4 years ago... you wrote this, which I fully agree with:

The Spicer transmission we are talking about is NOT a modern transmission. It was designed in the early1950's. At the time they used 80/90w or 90/140w gear oil. The transmission was "designed" to use it. Modern transmissions have been "designed" to use all sorts of gear oils to meet the engineers requirements. Some might use "ATF" since they will be shifted fast, like in a sports car. Some will be hauling heavy loads so they will use 80/90w . It just depends, but our "Spicer" was designed to use 80/90w . If you disassemble a modern transmission that uses "ATF" you will find extremely tight tolerances in gear lash and bushings. In a transmission designed to use 80/90w you will find more clearance in the gears and bushings. There is a reason why manufactures specify what gear oil to use. Ours has specified a heavy 80/90w in the TM's. That is what your suppose to use.

Now you seem to have changed your mind completely...?




This was my experience from many years ago: I converted my first M35 to a M35A1 (installed a LDS427-2 with a brand-new 3053 behind it). The very first trips were done with Delo 80W-90 from Chevron, since that is what I had used so far in the 3052 and everywhere.
All went well until I was told that a synthetic gear oil would make the transmission shift easier; run cooler and last forever... so I had to have that one, of course - despite what the TM says...
Out comes the good 80W-90; in goes 75W-90 synthetic (from Liqui-Moly, made in Germany...) but then the very first longer trip didn't end well at all: I start smelling burned oil and engine seemed to have lost power. Stopped, couldn't find anything except for the transmission feeling very hot. Removed the shifter boot and it smelled suspicious, even noticed a little smoke coming out of the shift tower...! Fast forward: 2nd gear journal looked as if it had run dry; almost seized!
Almost at the same time a friend of mine had also replaced his oil with synt.75W-90 (from Castrol), with very similar results, shortly after...!

Conclusion: For our Spicers better stay with a classic gear oil that is known and proven...!

 

[Floridianson]

Yes the 50W oil would be better. That is why the article Floridianson mentioned also had the "Delo Syn-Trans XE" SAE50 oil at the end.

What's different with the Mack? I only chose the 40 when I talked to Chevron's fluid engineer and told him what I had and I needed yellow metal safe and something close to Mil. specs.

Ouch just was reading G's post above after posting. Guess I have some rethinking to do but good thing I have never put any miles on my Deuce since the change. Will watch and learn.

 

[rustystud]

Me please, me; let me start...!

Only 4 years ago... you wrote this, which I fully agree with:

Now you seem to have changed your mind completely...?



This was my experience from many years ago: I converted my first M35 to a M35A1 (installed a LDS427-2 with a brand-new 3053 behind it). The very first trips were done with Delo 80W-90 from Chevron, since that is what I had used so far in the 3052 and everywhere.
All went well until I was told that a synthetic gear oil would make the transmission shift easier; run cooler and last forever... so I had to have that one, of course - despite what the TM says...
Out comes the good 80W-90; in goes 75W-90 synthetic (from Liqui-Moly, made in Germany...) but then the very first longer trip didn't end well at all: I start smelling burned oil and engine seemed to have lost power. Stopped, couldn't find anything except for the transmission feeling very hot. Removed the shifter boot and it smelled suspicious, even noticed a little smoke coming out of the shift tower...! Fast forward: 2nd gear journal looked as if it had run dry; almost seized!
Almost at the same time a friend of mine had also replaced his oil with synt.75W-90 (from Castrol), with very similar results, shortly after...!

Conclusion: For our Spicers better stay with a classic gear oil that is known and proven...!

Well Gerhard you seemed to have missed the "great oil debate" a few years ago now. I was a firm believer in the good old 80/90W gear oil. I used them for decades in many shops and dealerships with no problems. Then when I got into a debate with "Welldigger" and several others I ended up calling the "Tech" department at Spicer. Of course Spicer was sold to "Trimec" so I ended up talking with their engineer department. After a good hour talking with a really great guy there I ended up changing my mind. I posted the whole experience here somewhere.

I'll give you the short and sweet version now. All new transmission manufactures have gone to a lighter weight gear oil to help with the tighter clearances of modern transmissions. These new oils are suppose to be backwards compatible with all older transmissions including our 3052/3053 Spicer. These new oils all meet the "Shear" and "Compression" needs of all transmissions and being a Synthetic Base work with "Yellow Metals" and last years longer then the older oils.
My transmission has had this new oil for two years now with no problems.
Would I be afraid to use a good 80/90W oil ? Of course not. Is it the best oil for my transmission ? At this time I would say not really.
I do firmly believe though that any oil under 50W is to thin for our transmissions. Especially an oil designed for engines. That was what I was talking to Frank about. No 40W "engine" oil is going to work well in "any" transmission.

(Last sentences removed)

 

[rustystud]

This was my experience from many years ago: I converted my first M35 to a M35A1 (installed a LDS427-2 with a brand-new 3053 behind it). The very first trips were done with Delo 80W-90 from Chevron, since that is what I had used so far in the 3052 and everywhere.
All went well until I was told that a synthetic gear oil would make the transmission shift easier; run cooler and last forever... so I had to have that one, of course - despite what the TM says...
Out comes the good 80W-90; in goes 75W-90 synthetic (from Liqui-Moly, made in Germany...) but then the very first longer trip didn't end well at all: I start smelling burned oil and engine seemed to have lost power. Stopped, couldn't find anything except for the transmission feeling very hot. Removed the shifter boot and it smelled suspicious, even noticed a little smoke coming out of the shift tower...! Fast forward: 2nd gear journal looked as if it had run dry; almost seized!
Almost at the same time a friend of mine had also replaced his oil with synt.75W-90 (from Castrol), with very similar results, shortly after...!

Conclusion: For our Spicers better stay with a classic gear oil that is known and proven...!

I forgot to mention this. I have worked for over 4 decades in heavy truck maintenance with my "specialty" being transmissions. I have seen what happened to you many times before. Someone is running a particular oil and then decided to change to a modern "synthetic" oil and all "Hades" breaks loose ! What I have found happened after tearing down and inspecting the transmissions is the modern "Synthetic" oil loosened up all the old gunk and varnish coating the shafts and gears. Now with the clearances being much higher (due to years of wear the old oil hid) the gears and shaft start the old "shimmy shimmy" causing metal to metal contact. Metal to metal contact usually ends up with parts "galling" and or "welding" themselves together.
Sound familiar ?
Now you never mentioned how much time had passed after you installed the rebuilt transmission (or was it a NOS unit ?) . Also I hate to bring this up since people get so defensive about it, but who did the rebuild in the first place ? Was it a transmission specialty shop or someone else ? Installing old gears and main shafts back into a transmission without totally inspecting them for wear and hairline cracks especially on the bearing surfaces is not a good thing. Most people usually just check the gears "synchro" teeth or "Dogs" for wear. They totally miss the hairline cracks developing. Just saying there is a lot to look at in a transmission failure.

 

[Floridianson]

While I am waiting, watching and learning found this available. Sta-Lube SAE 85w90 GL4 from CRC offered at NAPA?

 

[frank8003]

Hey, I just an apprentice here trying to learn.

Is this true?
Spicer actually recommends 40 to 50 weight engine oil in their larger transmissions depending on temperature. For example they changed the recommended oil in the 3053A transmission used in the M35A2 from 90wt to 50 wt engine oil at least a decade ago. I will agree that the multigrade oil is not the best choice in the transmission. Mono-grade is best.

 

[frank8003]

This is informative
https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?51976-Trans-Oil-Overview-3053A

 

[NY Tom]

After much reading on these forums and researching oils I had gone with Mobil Delvac 50W Synthetic Transmission Fluid. Thought it would be great but I ended up having a harder time shifting after that. Certain gears grinding more going in etc. Switched to an ISO150 40W non-synthetic circulating gear oil that we use at work and it seemed to get better. Not sure what was in there before, probably regular 80W/90, but it's never been an easy-shifting truck since I had it. Seems likely that there are internal problems that need investigating. Perhaps the slipperiness of the synthetic didn't help it who knows.

Based purely on specs that 50W transmission fluid should have been great though. Lots of good info and experience here. Still plenty of opinions and likely YMMV with any choice.

 

[Floridianson]

Hey, I just an apprentice here trying to learn.

Yep me too here in a way Frank. The IRS for the last 20 years has me down as a home building contractor ( guess I was in a way) so I have to play catch up on somethings. Saw dust and nails no grease. Other stuff seems to comes easy with reading the TM's but "everybody" learns something from SteelSoldiers.

 

[Menaces Nemesis]

(Quote and text removed, for clean-up)


FWIW, I believe transmissions could possibly have different druthers... The same way one brand-new engine may have more or less blow-by than the next, what works well in one trans may not work as well in another. One trans may have a bit tighter or looser clearances in a spot or two, maybe the synchro detents and springs are a bit grabbier, or more forgiving, in one trans than another. With these variances, maybe one trans prefers something that's a bit more viscous, or maybe less, depending on temperature and how it's being used. I've tried the straight-weight Non-Detergent oil, and the synthetics too. When using 50wND in my 3053A, it was flat-out noisy. After getting off the highway from an extended run, shifts from 1-2 with both the 50wND and Synthetic 50w were really reluctant and sticky. Mine seems to run quieter, cooler, and shift best with 80w90 GL4/5. YMMV.

 

[frank8003]

This just gets better and better......................
An apprentice learns to listen to everything the old guys say
They could be wrong, They could be right.
Only in ones own time here on planet can one figure out what is best for One.
Keep all information coming
This is joy.