GL & HUMMVe

[Old Lincoln County Iron]

I guess we are fortunate that we can buy anything at all from GL. Its a shame to see the HUMMVEES mutilated like that, even though my interests are in the "big trucks", I could surely find a good use for one or two of them. Unlike the two the local police dept has, just sitting in the same spot Untouched for months now. Dang maybe I should go hire on there, maybe then I could Atleast play with them, lol.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

I guess we are fortunate that we can buy anything at all from GL. Its a shame to see the HUMMVEES mutilated like that, even though my interests are in the "big trucks", I could surely find a good use for one or two of them. Unlike the two the local police dept has, just sitting in the same spot Untouched for months now. Dang maybe I should go hire on there, maybe then I could Atleast play with them, lol.

Many PD & FD volunteers are entice just because of the chance to play with such toys. Some department have even acquired equipment for little to nothing from DRMO "just because" without any REAL application for same. Kinda sad, but at least the scrapper's chopper has to drool for a while before getting to devour them.

 

[Tornadogt]

you can buy them from the PD's and FD's as well as Non-Profit organizations as long as they keep them for at least 12 months after they pick them up from DRMO , Then they CAN sale them (most don't but they can)..... I have a Deuce with a FD listed as the previous owner on the Title..

 

[m16ty]

They can't legally sell a HMMWV not matter how long they keep it. All the HMMWVs you see at the fire and police departments still belong to Uncle Sam and he's going to want it back if it's no longer needed.

Some departments seem to think they can sell them and do but you better steer clear of buying one. Sooner or later you're going to have to give it back and hope you can get the money back you paid for it.

 

[Suprman]

I always thought the hmmwv's were on "loan" to the respective departments from Uncle Sam and they had to be returned after they were no longer needed.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

you can buy them from the PD's and FD's as well as Non-Profit organizations as long as they keep them for at least 12 months after they pick them up from DRMO , Then they CAN sale them (most don't but they can)..... I have a Deuce with a FD listed as the previous owner on the Title..

I too have a DEUCE that was formerly a FireTruck. That is irrelevent to this discussion.

You will NEVER find a FD or PD Titled HMMWV that can be cleanly or LEGALLY transferred to private ownership. As stated, they are ONLY ON LOAN for use by those entities.

 

[Tornadogt]

They can't legally sell a HMMWV not matter how long they keep it. All the HMMWVs you see at the fire and police departments still belong to Uncle Sam and he's going to want it back if it's no longer needed.

Some departments seem to think they can sell them and do but you better steer clear of buying one. Sooner or later you're going to have to give it back and hope you can get the money back you paid for it.

That would make sense, but others have said as long as they are owned by non combat government agencies that they can be sold to the public? like Border Patrol, and FBI/ Homeland Security and such... If the opportunity arrives I would get my facts and paperwork straight before my money left my hands...

 

[m16ty]

That would make sense, but others have said as long as they are owned by non combat government agencies that they can be sold to the public? like Border Patrol, and FBI/ Homeland Security and such... If the opportunity arrives I would get my facts and paperwork straight before my money left my hands...

Now I guess it's possible that some of the federal agencies you mentioned bought HMMWVs new or civilian H1 Hummers and could possibly be able to sell them. If the HMMWVs in question were ever owned by the dept of Defense the demil rules would apply though.

 

[ducer]

If Uncle Suggar sold the HMMWV's to the public then AM General (later Hummer) would have never been able to sell them to the general public because the market would be flooded with them. AM learned this lesson from Willys and Kiaser with the jeep. Had the jeeps never been surplussed out more new jeeps would have been sold. So in order to preserve their market for the Hummer no HMMWVs are let out. Now here's the part where AM General shoots themselvs in the foot. Because no HMMWVs are being surplussed out they are not selling the amount of replacement parts they could be (where the real money is). Also they are not building any brand loyalty. If a guy could buy a surplus Hmmwv for say $5,000 and spend another 5or 6,000 fixing it up and upgrading AM woild be sh1tting in tall cotton. But the bean counters don't see it that way.

Denny

 

[hndrsonj]

There is so much misinformation out there about HMMWV's it's amazing. It has nothing to do with Jeeps/parts/flooding the market etc. AMG built a legal civilian HMMWV. The problem is that they had all the safety equipment installed and the military ones didn't. If you read the OLD demil manual, it said they could be sold to the general public IF they were updated to FMSS standards and that they had to be demilled due to safety standards. The biggest problem, as I see it, is that if anyone tried to sell one "upgraded" they would be on the hook for liability. I have never heard of one being released this way; and that DRMO option is no longer in the current Demil manual.

 

[Chief_919]

you can buy them from the PD's and FD's as well as Non-Profit organizations as long as they keep them for at least 12 months after they pick them up from DRMO , Then they CAN sale them (most don't but they can)..... I have a Deuce with a FD listed as the previous owner on the Title..

This is not correct.

If it were a CUCV or such, it is correct. HMMWV's must be returned.

A local PD up here got in hot water over that, and had to go back and pay handsomely to get them back before they got in worse trouble. They could have had the DOD go take them, but they didn't want the negative publicity that would have come so they just offered the buyers a big enough profit to get them to give them back quietly.

 

[Chief_919]

Here is the deal guys.

Every single item in the DOD system that has an NSN has what is called an Item Manager. These manager monitor all aspects of all the items they are responsible for managing, usually thousands of items.

Part of that management is assignment of all the relevant supply codes- DEMIL codes, class of supply, recoverability, etc.

The important part here is DEMIL. That determines what happens when an item is no longer needed. Some DEMIL codes can be sold right away- that is stuff we buy at GL every day. Some codes require certain controls but can be sold- those are the items that require an EUC. And some DEMIL codes require mutilation.

That item manager follows the procedures established by DOD regulations.

The safety issue is not about the safety of others on the road, but of the occupants. The HMMWV lacks the safety features required, so they used this as the justification in the manual. Now the real political forces behind this may have been AM General lobbying for the change, that really doesn't change what the justification they are using is.

Will you get this changed? Highly doubt it. Why? Because if the DOD gets batcrap crazy about anything, it is safety. Rolling back ANYTHING that was done with safety as a justification is almost impossible.

You are far more likely to end up with they paying attention to the rest of our truck and applying the standards than loosing any on HMMWV's, making things worse for us. Why? That is how the DOD works. Nobody wants to rock the boat and push for reducing a safety standard, even a bogus one. But let one DOD employee see that they could apply HMMWV standards to the rest of our trucks and claim they just implemented a change that increased safety and they will get a big career boost, with no career risk. That is the nature of the civilian bureaucracy in the DOD, nobody is going to go to bat to allow HMMWV sales for us, but if somebody thinks he can help his career by stopping other sales to us for "safety's sake" he will in a heartbeat.

You would be much better off lobbying that they go to old 151 standards allowing them to be stripped before mutilation.

 

[3dAngus]

The Equipment Specialist for the HMMWV is the one who manages the code for the dmil and it's disposition. The item manager carries it on his/her books.

Few things on this site are more controversial then the discussion of HMMWV disposition. Fear factors for different reasons are a large part of it.

The only way to work any change in the system is through Washington Congressmen. I have tried through the U.S. Assistant Secretary of Defense for Logistics in Ohio, where the buck on this asset normally stops.

They are not going to do anything, whether by upgrading the safety factor to meet U.S. transportation standards, or making it for sale for "off road purposes only."

This is pretty much a dead issue without help out of Washington from Capital Hill. Assigned diplomats and their Assistants in the civilian sector will not approach the subject any further, in spite of a possible $100M savings with a limited sale to the public under strict guidelines, or safety renovation or off road use.

It is easier for them to just say "No".

 

[iatractor]

Many PD & FD volunteers are entice just because of the chance to play with such toys. Some department have even acquired equipment for little to nothing from DRMO "just because" without any REAL application for same. Kinda sad, but at least the scrapper's chopper has to drool for a while before getting to devour them.

th
I would tend to agree with this comment. Our three man police department here acquired 2 hmmwv's through the drmo program. Considering the chief is a friend of mine, I tried to convince him that this wasn't one of his better ideas. Let's put it this way, all of the things we have posted on here about things not to do when buying mv's from GL, the police department did it. I got a call after they left the drmo office wanting to know what the heater controls looked like, where the keys went, and why they couldn't find the ignition. My thought process told me that they were going to need some major prayers driving a rag top hmmv with no heater from Sparta, Wisconsin to SE Iowa in February. The reason they got the first one-it was "free" I convinced them they really should pay to have the second one hauled home (even though they didn't need it either). With that being said, I question the logic of letting just any agency get this equipment, and if it isn't safe for civilian operators and occupants, then why are we allowing various government entities to use this stuff without proper training and true justification (besides the reason that we can use it during a snow storm for pursuits)?

 

[ducer]

There is so much misinformation out there about HMMWV's it's amazing. It has nothing to do with Jeeps/parts/flooding the market etc. AMG built a legal civilian HMMWV. The problem is that they had all the safety equipment installed and the military ones didn't. If you read the OLD demil manual, it said they could be sold to the general public IF they were updated to FMSS standards and that they had to be demilled due to safety standards. The biggest problem, as I see it, is that if anyone tried to sell one "upgraded" they would be on the hook for liability. I have never heard of one being released this way; and that DRMO option is no longer in the current Demil manual.

Hndrsonj,
With all due respect I got my information in 1988 when I was up at the GM Tech Center in Hinsdale Ill. from a AM General engineer I happened to have lunch with. AM G watched the lessons with the jeeps and was determined not to do what jeep did. You can not sell a new $50,000 vehicle when you can buy a used version for much much less. It was only after AM G saw the public's reaction to the HMMWV that they decided to develop one for the general public. It makes no sense for AM G to think they could be sued over a vehicle that they only built for the military to the military's specifications if you sit and think about it for a minute. There is so much back door crap that goes on with the government and the auto industry it would make your head spin. For instance the 55 mph speed limit came about when B.F. Goodrich went to NHTSA and said we cant make a steel belted radial tire that will survive sustained higher speeds, shortly after Firestone, Goodyear, Uniroyal and all the rest did the same thing. They all needed more time for the technology and materials to mature, with the promise of better gasmileage.
The OPEC embargo was the perfect excuse congress needed to lower the national speed limit. As the tire technology improved so did the nations speedlimits.

Denny

 

[hndrsonj]

Hndrsonj,
With all due respect I got my information in 1988 when I was up at the GM Tech Center in Hinsdale Ill. from a AM General engineer.

Denny

Believe what you want; my info is from the old demil manuals and several MVM articles.

 

[Mercunimog404]

There was millions of jeeps sold. There isn't an issue with selling off surplus stuff and a company loosing money. That's silly. And the 55 mph came about because of the oil embargoes of the early 70s. Not because a radial couldn't stand over 55 mph. Where do you think radial technology came from? It came from racing.

 

[ducer]

Steel belted tires came from the minning industry not racing. The minning industry needed tougher tires for their wheeled equiptment. Steel belted radial tires did not finaly make it to racing until the 80's. The Arab oil embargo was just the excuse the politicians needed to lower the national speed limit. Like no politician has ever lied to us before. I talked to the guys that were actually there and know first hand. I have even held in my hand internal GM memo's saying the 55 mph speed limit did little to improve fuel consumption because you spent more time in the behind the wheel getting there.



Denny

 

[Mercunimog404]

Steel belted tires came from the minning industry not racing. The minning industry needed tougher tires for their wheeled equiptment. Steel belted radial tires did not finaly make it to racing until the 80's. The Arab oil embargo was just the excuse the politicians needed to lower the national speed limit. Like no politician has ever lied to us before. I talked to the guys that were actually there and know first hand. I have even held in my hand internal GM memo's saying the 55 mph speed limit did little to improve fuel consumption because you spent more time in the behind the wheel getting there.



Denny

http://www.businessweek.com/stories...siness-news-stock-market-and-financial-advice

 

[UNIMOG-GUY]

It is interesting reading this information... and it is amazing the different schools of thought/misinformation of why the HMMWV isn't allowed to be sold to the public. Having read some of the information on the topic recently I decided to ask the people at the DRMO.

I just back from Fort Gordon, GA after picking up 2 M1102 trailers and a DRMO employee (who has been doing it for 27yrs) told me that the reason that the HMMWV isn't for sale is because of what someone (a civilian) had done illegally with one of the originals that was released back in the 90's. He claimed that the information is classified as to what happened.
He also stated that there was some tactical information/parts that if it found/figured out and got into the wrong hands would be bad for "our guys". He also stated that removing these parts and items would render the vehicle useless.