Glow Plugs

[VA350]

I just ordered new glow plugs for my MEP-002a. All I could find were Champion. Are there any other recomendations for glow plugs. I have a couple ford trucks with the 6.9 IDI and have always run Motorcraft/BERU plugs with no problems. My son fried the Motorcraft plugs and put autolites in without telling me and fried them after 3 starts running the plugs for no more than 12 to 15 seconds. Most of them swelled up and one broke off in the head. Right now the head is off. Will I have any problems with the champions in the MEP? Also the owners manual says to run the glow plugs for up to 60 seconds, anyone ever had problems with plugs swelling up or failing running them that long. What recommendations do you guys have?

 

[PeterD]

If they are swelling up after 15 seconds, then I'd say you probably have the wrong ones installed.

 

[doghead]

Specifically, what GPs did you use and what did you order now?

 

[VA350]

They were the correct autolite plugs but the autolite plugs for the ford IDI's are known to swell. I always use Motorcraft which are made by BERU. My question is not about the glow plugs in the 6.9 ford, it's about glow plugs for the MEP? What is recommended and has anyone ever had problems with a certain brand?

 

[hurst01]

The MEP002 requires a 24 Volt glow plug. My thoughts are that you installed 12 volt glow plugs in it. It should not have burned up that quickly with the correct glow plug. What is the number of the Champion Glow plugs you ordered? The correct number is CH42 and it has to be marked 24V.

 

[Jimc]

hurst is right.

if i am understanding your thread right you installed motorcraft and autolites into your mep? if so they arent right. only champion and wellman make plugs for the mep002/003 and they stopped making them as well. you will only find champions for sale at the moment and they are hard to find. there are no cross references to other brands.

 

[cuad4u]

If the day ever comes when OE type 24V glow plugs that fit the 002A and 003A generators cannot be found at any price, 12V glow plugs can be used if they can be found and as long as the threads and overall dimensions are identical. I do not know if suitable 12V glow plugs even exist. If they do this will require adding a wire from the + terminal of the "bottom" of the two batteries to get 12V and installing this wire to a newly added switch of adequate current rating. I would use a heavy duty momentary spring loaded switch for this purpose. The switch must be held in against spring pressure to activate the glow plugs for as long as needed. From this switch the wire would go to the 12V glow plugs. The original glow plug wires and the glow plug position on the start-prime-run switch would not be used and the terminal ends on the original wiring should be taped or covered with heat shrink to keep them from shorting out. After priming the system as normal with the prime switch, the added glow plug switch would be pushed in for how ever long necessary to "light" the 12V glow plugs. Then the original start-prime-run switch would be put into the "START" position to start the engine. I hope it does not come to this, but with the supply of 24V glow plugs apparently drying up, this is a way to keep our 002A and 003A generators going, if suitable 12V glow plugs are available. cuad4u PE EE

 

[Rapracing]

Not sure if these are right or not. It says:

Champion Spark Plugs Stock Number 182, Type CH42, Tapered Seat , 0.472" Hex , 10mm Thread NAReach , Champion® Glow Plugs

http://www.race-mart.com/Champion_Spark_Plugs-CSP-182.html

 

[CDR]

Bought them

 

[CDR]

Not sure if these are right or not. It says:

Champion Spark Plugs Stock Number 182, Type CH42, Tapered Seat , 0.472" Hex , 10mm Thread NAReach , Champion® Glow Plugs

http://www.race-mart.com/Champion_Spark_Plugs-CSP-182.html

Don't buy them they are out of stock

 

[cuad4u]

The 24V OE glow plugs used in 002A and 003A generators and the PROPER replacements made by Champion show 5 ohms resistance from the tab to ground. In order to get the same wattage, 12V glow plugs will show 2.5 ohms from the tab to ground. If you buy replacement glow plugs off ebay or elsewhere, ohm them out before installing them. If they show 5 ohms you are good-to-go. If they show 2.5 ohms they are most likely 12V glow plugs and they will burn out in just a few seconds on 24V. This simple test could save you lots of headaches.

 

[Isaac-1]

I was thinking maybe for now a crude electronic solution might work, something using a power transistor and oscillator to convert from 24V to 12V inline through PWM (pulse width modulation). It would be a very crude approximation of 12V (rapidly pulsed 24V) averaging out to 12V, but since we have no electronics in the circuit and heating is really our only concern this may work fine. Perhaps even wire it so it flip flops between 2 12V output lines one to each glow plug on a MEP-002a or to each pair of two on a MEP-003a. It has been too many years since I dealt with this kind of stuff, but perhaps some of our more electronic inclined people could chime in, this would at at least help as long as there is a supply of the 12V glow plugs out there, and should be a simple plug in cheap module.

Ike

p.s. there might even already be 24V to 12V PWM modules built for other purposes that we could convert to this use (solar charge controllers, etc.)

 

[Jeepsinker]

Are they flat or rounded tab glow plugs you need?

 

[cuad4u]

I was thinking maybe for now a crude electronic solution might work, something using a power transistor and oscillator to convert from 24V to 12V inline through PWM (pulse width modulation). It would be a very crude approximation of 12V (rapidly pulsed 24V) averaging out to 12V, but since we have no electronics in the circuit and heating is really our only concern this may work fine. Perhaps even wire it so it flip flops between 2 12V output lines one to each glow plug on a MEP-002a or to each pair of two on a MEP-003a. It has been too many years since I dealt with this kind of stuff, but perhaps some of our more electronic inclined people could chime in, this would at at least help as long as there is a supply of the 12V glow plugs out there, and should be a simple plug in cheap module.

Ike

p.s. there might even already be 24V to 12V PWM modules built for other purposes that we could convert to this use (solar charge controllers, etc.)

I posted this same idea else where. I think the simplest solution, if 24V glow plugs become extinct and we have to start using 12V glow plugs, is this. First - install a heavy gauge wire (gauge will depend on current draw) to the + terminal of the "bottom" battery. This is the battery whose - terminal is connected to ground at the starter. Second - install a HEAVY DUTY spring loaded "NO" (normally open) switch on the meter panel and connect the wire coming from the battery to it. This wire will have 12V on it. Third - run another HEAVY gauge wire from this switch to each of the 12V glow plugs. Fourth - tape over or install heat shrink tubing over the ends of the original 24V glow plug wires to eliminate the possibility of them shorting out to ground. The original 24V glow plug wires and the GLOW PLUG position on the original start-prime-run switch are no longer needed or used.

To start the generator:

1. Put the start-prime-run switch in the PRIME position as before and let the fuel pumps run until the system primes.
2. Push the new spring loaded glow plug switch "IN" to activate the new 12V glow plugs. After the glow plugs "light" (30-60 seconds) release the new spring loaded glow plug switch
3. Turn the original start-prime-run switch to START and the generator should start and run as usual.

If 24V glow plugs ever go extinct and if all that are available are 12V glow plugs, this will eliminate the need for 24V to 12V voltage converters. Some have suggested that a resistor can be used. However if you do the math, I think the size and wattage resistor needed will make most people shy away.

cuad4u PE Electrical Engineering

 

[Triple Jim]

Is it known if Champion AG42 glow plugs are the same as CH42 glow plugs? I searched this board for "AG42" and got no results.

 

[cuad4u]

Sometimes after I speak or post, a better idea comes to mind. If 24V glow plugs become extinct and / or cost prohibitive and if we have to use 12V glow plugs in our 002A and 003A generators, this may be the simplest and best way to go.

1. Install a relay with a 24VDC coil and heavy duty contacts that will carry the necessary amperage in the metering box. There is room on the right side of the box.
2. Connect a heavy gauge wire to the (+) terminal of the battery whose (-) terminal is connected to ground at the starter. This wire will provide 12VDC to the new relay contacts.
3. Run this wire carrying 12VDC directly from the battery into the metering box and connect it to the input contacts of the newly installed relay.
4. Run another heavy gauge wire from the output contacts of the new relay to each of the new 12VDC glow plugs.
5. Connect the 24VDC coil of the new relay across the 24VDC coil of the existing relay that is (was) used to "light" the 24VDC glow plugs, when the prime-start-run switch is turned to the spring loaded glow plug activation position - fully CCW. When this is done the newly installed relay with a 24VDC coil will pull in, which will put 12VDC on each glow plug.

To start the engine you do is EXACTLY as before the 12VDC glow plugs were installed. Turn the original prime-start-run switch to the PRIME position to turn on the fuel pumps to prime the fuel system. Then turn the prime-start-run switch to the spring loaded glow plug "light" position (fully CCW) and hold it ON for 30-60 seconds. This will energize the 24VDC coil of the relay which will close the relay contacts which will put 12VDC on each of the glow plugs. Then turn the prime-start-tun switch to START and the engine will start and run as usual.

If or when 24VDC glow plugs become extinct, this is what I would do.

Doing this is easily reversible if 24V glow plugs become available again and will not alter the generator starting procedure what-so-ever.

This will eliminate the need for installing an additional manually operated switch to "light" the 12VDC glow plugs and once installed will make starting the generator exactly like it was when 24VDC glow plugs were installed.

 

[storeman]

There are 2 identical 24 volt relays in the MEP control box, one to the starter, the other to the glow plugs, etc. Would what you suggest be doable by adding a third identical relay, (this third one off the existing relay to the preheat system)?
Jerry

 

[dependable]

I think someone has mentioned this, but wouldn't it be pretty easy to use a resistor to drop voltage?, like in a cucv or the ballast resistors for old ignition coils?

 

[cuad4u]

There are 2 identical 24 volt relays in the MEP control box, one to the starter, the other to the glow plugs, etc. Would what you suggest be doable by adding a third identical relay, (this third one off the existing relay to the preheat system)?
Jerry

This would work IF the relay contacts in the third identical relay will carry the extra current (twice the current) the 12V glow plugs will require. Assuming the 12V glow plugs are the same WATTAGE as the 24V glow plugs (WATTS=VOLTSXAMPS) the third relay contacts will have to carry TWICE the current when operating 12V glow plugs as it does when operating 24V glow plugs. Since most everything on the MEP generators is vastly under-rated, it may work.

cuad4u PE EE

 

[Chrispyny]

I posted this same idea else where. I think the simplest solution, if 24V glow plugs become extinct and we have to start using 12V glow plugs, is this. First - install a heavy gauge wire (gauge will depend on current draw) to the + terminal of the "bottom" battery. This is the battery whose - terminal is connected to ground at the starter. Second - install a HEAVY DUTY spring loaded "NO" (normally open) switch on the meter panel and connect the wire coming from the battery to it. This wire will have 12V on it. Third - run another HEAVY gauge wire from this switch to each of the 12V glow plugs. Fourth - tape over or install heat shrink tubing over the ends of the original 24V glow plug wires to eliminate the possibility of them shorting out to ground. The original 24V glow plug wires and the GLOW PLUG position on the original start-prime-run switch are no longer needed or used.

To start the generator:

1. Put the start-prime-run switch in the PRIME position as before and let the fuel pumps run until the system primes.
2. Push the new spring loaded glow plug switch "IN" to activate the new 12V glow plugs. After the glow plugs "light" (30-60 seconds) release the new spring loaded glow plug switch
3. Turn the original start-prime-run switch to START and the generator should start and run as usual.

If 24V glow plugs ever go extinct and if all that are available are 12V glow plugs, this will eliminate the need for 24V to 12V voltage converters. Some have suggested that a resistor can be used. However if you do the math, I think the size and wattage resistor needed will make most people shy away.

cuad4u PE Electrical Engineering

Someone REALLY SHOULD sticky this.
This is an amazingly easy fix to the Ch42 glow plug shortage problem.
Thank you for posting this Cuad4u. Really. I would even consider doing this before i were to think of spending the asking prices that the 24v glow plugs are going for right now. My heart sunk a couple days ago when i began reading these glow plug parts availability issues. Frankly i may not have bid on, won, and drove down to New Castle from upstate NY to buy my 002a if i knew these plugs ( which are a consumable item ) were so hard to find. Reading this just put me at massive ease.
The only hard part would be isolating the relays to ensure correct wiring.