Got in a bit of a mess - winch jammed

[cattlerepairman]

HAD to try to get through a mud hole. Got stuck. Winched myself out without issues.
Trying to get back to the road I got stuck again, in an awkward spot with nothing to hook to that was in line with the truck. Awkward pull at an angle of about 40 degrees - I know better, but there was no other choice - and my hope was that the winch would pull the front end forward and to the side, assisted by the steering. No dice. It almost worked, but the winch cable slid over the top of the guide corners, snuck under the corner of the top plate, jammed, and the shear pin popped. No visible damage to anything. Not even the cable is kinked or pinched.

My problem is that the winch cable is under load and I can't release the tension. Drum lock is of course disengaged.I managed to gently knock the clutch lever to "out".
But...the tension did not release. I still cannot move the winch drive shaft by hand. I cannot move the drum by hand. Even if the broken shear pin jams the collar and the shaft, with the clutch disengaged and the PTO in neutral I should be able to spin the whole shaft by hand. Maybe the clutch is not fully disengaged?

Had to give up..pitch dark. No one is going to steal the truck where it sits...


Here is a picture from when I was still laughing. Now I am further in and still pointed away from the road.



I guess I can cut down the tree I hooked to in order to get the tension off the cable. Then unbolt the top plate and see how much that un-jams the drum and the drive shaft?

 

[NDT]

If you can't spin the driveshaft, the clutch is still engaged. Which is good. Replace the shear pin and reverse out of the cable pinch.

 

[cattlerepairman]

Got her out.
I could turn the winch driveshaft with a large screwdriver in the U joint. Lined up the holes and swapped the shear pin. Then I could un-spool under power and get rid of the tension on the winch line. So much easier in day light!

However: The clutch does not disengage. The lever moves, perhaps half an inch either way but the drum is permanently engaged. I remember the lever moving quite a bit more and firmly engaging. Did I bend or break something?
I tried turning the drive shaft and gently tapping the lever with a rubber malled...nothing. There is no difference in winch behaviour between the clutch lever being half an inch left or right. The drum "free spools" about a quarter turn, then stops. It runs fine under power.

It made for suspenseful moments...I had to pay out the winch cable under power and coil it up in front of the truck. You gotta be quick doing that on your own...


Anyway...got her out and also got to rescue a british 6x6 SARACEN APC. That bas*ard weighs just a little more than the Deuce empty and needed quite the pull to get it out of a deep rut.

 

[NDT]

The clutch fork has set screws if I remember that keep the clutch shaft from turning inside it. When you forced the lever, the fork would not move and the set screws cut grooves into the shaft. You're looking at disassembly/repairs to get the clutch working again. The lever is attached to the clutch shaft with a half moon key, maybe your could have broke that, and that would be a much easier fix.

 

[Jeepsinker]

I want the Saracen....

 

[cattlerepairman]

I want the Saracen....

Here you go. Owned by the local gas station guy I think it is 1954. V-8 Rolls Royce gas engine (good that the guy owns a gas station!). Runs well but needs a bit of TLC. It leaks hydraulic fluid (has marginal brakes), there is water in one of the headlights. Radiator weeps when hot (I think that is why he has the bottom panel off). Otherwise functional and pretty complete. It is yearning to get a gun back into that turret!!

It was a good winch anchor point for my Deuce. Then he sunk it, turning around in the same soft ground where I had just gotten myself un-stuck

I did not want to use the winch and pop another shear pin, so I hooked him to the back with a chain and pulled in 1 Low. Hopping rear end and smell of burnt rubber, but after a few (mild) jerks I got him unstuck and moving.

The Saracen is actually quite impressive when it comes at you from straight ahead. It is much wider than it looks and the six wheel suspension components are massive!

 

[Jeepsinker]

Very nice! So this belongs to a friend of yours?

 

[cattlerepairman]

Very nice! So this belongs to a friend of yours?

Yes - MV friend. I am the only one close by with a tandem axle truck and a winch that stands a chance to snatch block him out of trouble!

 

[whatadeuce]

Hey jeepsinker, You got any armor? You got any artillery shells larger than 155MM?

 

[cattlerepairman]

Update:
I read a LOT of winch repair and rebuild thread information. Fascinating. I recommend THIS thread: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?80417-Winch-Teardown-Q

I felt that the most likely two issues with my winch clutch no longer dis-engaging were either a twisted clutch shaft or the clutch fork twisted on the shaft. Gringeltaube has excellent drawings that explain why a small deformation at the shaft can cause a marked reduction in travel at the clutch fork. Either defect would require removal of the winch and disassembly/repair.

I reasoned that, if a relatively small force in one direction caused either deformation (I had used a short, footlong 2x4 wedged in the grille to move the clutch lever) I have nothing to lose by slowly applying force the opposite way. If I broke something, I would fix it during the rebuild.

I moved the lever to the "IN" position and then used a 2 ft steel pipe over the clutch lever to slowly apply load towards the "IN" position (pulling lever to the passenger side). I watched the base of the lever for movement while putting weight onto the pipe.
A few tries later (and always checking lever movement and whether the clutch moved freely by spinning the drum and moving the lever) I felt a distinct "give" and saw the lever and shaft move a few mm.

Yo and behold, the clutch lever now moves smoothly and the drum engages-disengages with minimal effort. Tried this about fifteen times now, I 'm so pleased!

I am not trying to portray this as "The way" to fix your winch clutch that is stuck in "IN" or "OUT" position, but it was definitely worth a try. Not being able to disengage the drum will cause the winch to spool in or out when the lever in the cab is knocked out of "Neutral". IMHO, a safety issue while driving. I also understand that, depending on the underlying damage, the winch clutch will have to be handled gently until an eventual rebuild.

 

[cattlerepairman]

My ex-service OCD does not allow me to leave winch cable criss-crossed for long periods of time. Re-wound all winch cable after cleaning and spraying with cable lube and hammering the first layer tightly into place. Winch works flawlessly under load (winched truck up a hill) and winch clutch engages/disengages smoothly.

So - if you have a similar winch clutch problem, loading the clutch shaft the other way might be worth a try.

 

[datadawg]

Anyway...got her out and also got to rescue a british 6x6 SARACEN APC. That bas*ard weighs just a little more than the Deuce empty and needed quite the pull to get it out of a deep rut.

I was under the impression the Saracen will go through anything. Full time 6 wheel drive with all wheels locked, no differential slip. And he got stuck??

 

[frank8003]

now I am going to think about all this all night!
How much fun can one have is being taught here.......

 

[dmetalmiki]

I was under the impression the Saracen will go through anything. Full time 6 wheel drive with all wheels locked, no differential slip. And he got stuck??

They were for ever getting stuck when I was serving. And they definately did not like hard pavement at all. Maintenance was a nightmare.

 

[BEASTMASTER]

next time hook a chain and a snatch block to one of you're lifting eyes, to keep the cable in the middle of you're winch. the cable will bunch up in the middle but it will get you out and u can rewind it later. I assume u DO have a snatch block. if not GET one. good luck on u're next excursion.