Govplanet Service, Jwade does it again!

[ruSSrt]

Since issues has been resolved and we are talking about data plates i have a question to you guys.
I picked up M998 last week and there was no year on the action on no serial number in the action because data plate was unreadable. Looking at the picture of it looks like number actually have not been stamped on it.
Do you guys think i'll have a problem going through the paperwork process or later when i'm going to register it?

 

[MaverickH1]

This makes me very concerned about the M1123 I just bought a month ago on GP. If it was actually a 1987 truck, I wouldn't pay what I did. The data plate:



The only other picture that includes data plates:

 

[springbok]

Data plates, mileage and Fuel Gauge are 3 things you can never rely to be true on green trucks. My 998 is dated 1989, was reset in 2011 and yet the VIN is 2XX9 Yes, a 4 digit vin number on a 1989 LOL
I did not trust the mileage (460 miles) but it was a clean truck and I figured WOOHOO at least it has a new gauge.. Turned out it was "re-reset" in 2014 and I must assume that they figured, new motor = 0 miles.
It is also the quietest HV I have ever been in, you can actually talk, not yell, when driving at any speed. Somehow that made it the wife's truck haha

 

[Royalpower]

Data plates, mileage and Fuel Gauge are 3 things you can never rely to be true on green trucks.

Agree! Love it when you're driving the fuel gauge reads half, then it jumps to empty only to jump back to half two min later

 

[Lionel]

Since a fair resolution was reached would it be approprite, or even allowed, to change this thread title to something like "Govplaner service". Jusk asking.

 

[MaverickH1]

Data plates, mileage and Fuel Gauge are 3 things you can never rely to be true on green trucks. My 998 is dated 1989, was reset in 2011 and yet the VIN is 2XX9 Yes, a 4 digit vin number on a 1989 LOL
I did not trust the mileage (460 miles) but it was a clean truck and I figured WOOHOO at least it has a new gauge.. Turned out it was "re-reset" in 2014 and I must assume that they figured, new motor = 0 miles.
It is also the quietest HV I have ever been in, you can actually talk, not yell, when driving at any speed. Somehow that made it the wife's truck haha

Per GovPlanet's site, they are very open about the "We make no guarantees about mileage". And that's fine. I understand odometers get replaced a bit. Heck, even civilian Hummers have that as a big problem due to those malfunctioning all the time.

But the year would be a very concerning part to me. I bid accordingly. If I bought a 1989 and it turned out to be a 1987... I don't think I'd care. But if I bought a 2005 and it was actually a 1987... that's a big difference to me. Does anyone have any idea how I can tell if "2005" is accurate for the truck I have? How would I go about finding that out?

I still think I've got a 2005 truck with low miles. The undercarriage pictures looked like it was almost brand new. The serial # is in the 219XXX range. The things I'd be concerned about on an older truck would be all of the rubber components being dry rotted, and the steering and suspension components being the weaker components from the earlier trucks. I'm assuming that Humvees followed the replacement parts in the Hummer H1 trucks when talking about the base mechanical parts in steering/suspension/brakes/frame/etc, and there are a TON of upgrades between start of production and 2005. For comparison, 2006 was the year of the Hummer H1 Alpha, the final production Hummer H1. Hummer model year changes: http://www.lynchhummer.com/Changes/h1.changes/h1changes.index.html

I've never seen a database like the above for military vehicles.

Undercarriage picture attached. The paint on the undercarriage still looks brand spanking new. I really love GovPlanet's thorough inspections and pictures. It's truly appreciated, Jwade.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

A single pic isn't going to tell you what year the chassis was mfg'd. But to ease your fears...a 1987 didn't have a 6.5NA with 4L80E and 242 tcase. If you go to AM generals website, you see that an M1123 is an A2 series truck, the M1123 was for the Marine Corp. and they added the MAK Kit on them later on...these MAK "Marine armor kit" was removed prior to sale. The M1123 is basically a USMC version of an M1097A2. I have a true M1097A2, you will find 12k rotors, larger halfshafts, 2:73 diffs, rotor protection guards, a beefier frame, all A2 crossmembers, fording kit installed as required for all USMC combat vehicles. Also, the undercarriage on marine trucks has a black undercoating applied to prevent corrosion in saltwater enviroments.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Per GovPlanet's site, they are very open about the "We make no guarantees about mileage". And that's fine. I understand odometers get replaced a bit. Heck, even civilian Hummers have that as a big problem due to those malfunctioning all the time.

But the year would be a very concerning part to me. I bid accordingly. If I bought a 1989 and it turned out to be a 1987... I don't think I'd care. But if I bought a 2005 and it was actually a 1987... that's a big difference to me. Does anyone have any idea how I can tell if "2005" is accurate for the truck I have? How would I go about finding that out?

I still think I've got a 2005 truck with low miles. The undercarriage pictures looked like it was almost brand new. The serial # is in the 219XXX range. The things I'd be concerned about on an older truck would be all of the rubber components being dry rotted, and the steering and suspension components being the weaker components from the earlier trucks. I'm assuming that Humvees followed the replacement parts in the Hummer H1 trucks when talking about the base mechanical parts in steering/suspension/brakes/frame/etc, and there are a TON of upgrades between start of production and 2005. For comparison, 2006 was the year of the Hummer H1 Alpha, the final production Hummer H1. Hummer model year changes: http://www.lynchhummer.com/Changes/h1.changes/h1changes.index.html

I've never seen a database like the above for military vehicles.

Undercarriage picture attached. The paint on the undercarriage still looks brand spanking new. I really love GovPlanet's thorough inspections and pictures. It's truly appreciated, Jwade.

View attachment 643952

all you have to do is go to AM generals website...they have all the upgrades listed for the model truck.
you can also just google it....but FYI, these aren't H1's, so using an H1 model year change chart won't do much good for a HMMWV.

 

[Lionel]

MaverickH1 said, "But the year would be a very concerning part to me. I bid accordingly. If I bought a 1989 and it turned out to be a 1987... I don't think I'd care. But if I bought a 2005 and it was actually a 1987... that's a big difference to me. Does anyone have any idea how I can tell if "2005" is accurate for the truck I have? How would I go about finding that out?"

Maybe this will ease your mind some.

 

[MaverickH1]

A single pic isn't going to tell you what year the chassis was mfg'd. But to ease your fears...a 1987 didn't have a 6.5NA with 4L80E and 242 tcase. If you go to AM generals website, you see that an M1123 is an A2 series truck, the M1123 was for the Marine Corp. and they added the MAK Kit on them later on...these MAK "Marine armor kit" was removed prior to sale. The M1123 is basically a USMC version of an M1097A2. I have a true M1097A2, you will find 12k rotors, larger halfshafts, 2:73 diffs, rotor protection guards, a beefier frame, all A2 crossmembers, fording kit installed as required for all USMC combat vehicles. Also, the undercarriage on marine trucks has a black undercoating applied to prevent corrosion in saltwater enviroments.

Understood. Showing the picture was just to show that the truck that is advertised as a 2005 with 81 miles actually does look like it. It does not look like a 1987 with 30,000 miles with a replaced odometer and other parts. It's hard to keep up because several of the old trucks were retrofitted with the 6.5 and 242 transfer case. All of the ones I have seen like that had a data plate that clearly stated a maintenance event, and when it happened. I had never seen a 4L80e replaced where the old... TH400... I think... used to be. This thread made me concerned that it was a possibility.

Rotor guards - check
6.5 Optimizer - check
4L80e - check
242 T-case - I assume check, I think it's impossible to have a 4L80e without it.
12k halfshafts, rotors, diff, other parts - not sure because I don't know what to look for in the pictures
Black undercoating - maybe. Pictures seem to support that.

The top badge on the data plates is the MAK data plate.

I'm back into the "confident" realm. /sigh

 

[MaverickH1]

MaverickH1 said, "But the year would be a very concerning part to me. I bid accordingly. If I bought a 1989 and it turned out to be a 1987... I don't think I'd care. But if I bought a 2005 and it was actually a 1987... that's a big difference to me. Does anyone have any idea how I can tell if "2005" is accurate for the truck I have? How would I go about finding that out?"

Maybe this will ease your mind some.

View attachment 643965

I see, so your concern is that the truck was a different variant, and possibly a 1998 at the earliest instead of a 200_? Seemed like we were in the same boat. I got one of the stripped M1123 trucks too.

If it IS possible that it is a 1998 truck instead of a 2005... that still stinks and keeps me on the side of "wouldn't have paid as much as I did" for it. But for now I haven't seen anything that would indicate it ISN'T a 2005. I'm still unsure how I'd find that out for sure.

 

[Action]

is that chart stating the 6.5 turbo diesel was not used until 2006? except for the m1113 and m1114 (2004)?

 

[Lionel]

Not sure, but one of my turbo drive lines has a GEP block cast in late 2003, with a transfer case that has a 1996 tag on it. And it absolutely came out of an ECV chassis. I think the combinations and anomalies are endless. Only Ted G., Steve and Greg can make any sense of them.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

I can tell you all this....the only thing for certain is that nothing is for certain.
there was an M1097E "?" Up on GP tues, 10k opening, no bidder, recycled to 8k...one bid and sold, I missed it and would have paid 8k for it...it was a Navy Seabee truck with a 6.5NA serpintined, but on a TH400 and 218 tcase...quite a weird one, but real none the less.

As as far as the OP, I looked at you link, sleep easy brotha, take a deep breath, you have a nice all original M1123.
you have 12k geared hubs, 12k halfshafts, most likely flexible brake lines, larger vented 12in rotors, galvanized frame rails etc....you also have a crap ton of holes from the MAK Kit that was installed. You truck would be a model year of whatever years the M1123 was produced. GP knows as much as we do sometimes...don't just assume that they know everything about what was done to the truck, these are not aircraft, there are no historicals at TACOM like there is for Aircraft.
your truck looks identical to my M1097A2 except your has the Marine Corp rear drip loop shackles on the upgraded towing kit...those were only applied to marine Corp trucks.

 

[Lionel]

Thank you Sir. So, the 1043a2 sling data plate is not necessarily original?

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Thank you Sir. So, the 1043a2 sling data plate is not necessarily original?

the truck went through reset...maybe it is, maybe it's not. I see the wrong sling data plates all the time.
GP had an M1025 that was a ragtop m998 some time back.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Also, the IROAN tag has the SN and mileage on it....IROAN is "inspect,repair on as necessary"

 

[Lionel]

Thank you very much for your help. Now the search for the hard top, etc. I know the real MAK armor is nearly impossible to find, but maybe some repro is possible. I love these things though. Just so much fun working on them and driving them.

 

[MaverickH1]

all you have to do is go to AM generals website...they have all the upgrades listed for the model truck.
you can also just google it....but FYI, these aren't H1's, so using an H1 model year change chart won't do much good for a HMMWV.

Just saw this. I understand they are different. And a lot of things I'm seeing will be assumptions.

But for example, in 1994 the H1 changed to beefier half-shafts, new fuel tank design, new propeller shafts, new radiator. 1995 saw new ball joints (which were improved continuously after that), upgrades to pitman arm, idler arm, new control arms, etc.

Going all the way to 2001, there are things like another design change to a heavier duty pitman arm and idler arm. New design for seals on geared hubs.

And so on. Now... I don't know that all of these were on the HMMWV. Several modifications like ABS, or undercoatings to reduce noise, or increased strength of a door hinge and things like that, I would not expect those on the HMMWV. But the purely mechanical improvements could certainly be.

I looked at the Humvee purchase like I had one of two basic options:
1) Buy a complete truck that had generation 1 everything. 6.2, TH400, steering and suspension components, etc.
2) Buy a truck with what I call generation 3 everything. 6.5 Optimizer, 4L80E, 242 T-Case, upgraded steering and suspension components, etc.

Since I'm in Virginia, it appeared what I'd have to do for a title was going to be impossible with Option 1 unless I spent the same $$ as Option 2 and got the truck from another state. While option 2 came with an incomplete truck, I saw that as an opportunity to make it exactly what I wanted it to be. Looking around at steering and suspension components if I wanted to upgrade an option 1 truck... the prices were pretty staggering. So option 2 seemed like the easy choice for me. This thread made me concerned I actually had an option 1.5 or generation 2, if you will.

I plan on putting this truck to work with a matching M1102 on my property. Lots of steep hills and rocks. And I only have 8 acres!

I can't wait! I've been bitten by bug pretty badly...