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[WillWagner]

Just a little off topic but theres a guy on you tube bought a new truck diesel and hes been documenting this from the first day till today for the last 130,000 miles hes been putting garden hose water in his def tank and has not had one problem /code . That just makes me smile at all the money people have spent buying def all these years

DEF is part water and part something else, don't remember, it has been a few years since I left the workforce, used to know, but now kinda don't care. It is made to defrost at the same rate as the water it is mixed with, hence the heating system in the DEF fluid side. In the aftertreatment system, there are O2 sensors, usually at the exit of the turbo, entrance to the aftertreatment system, don't matter if it is a single or dual type, and at the exit of the system. The OBC, ECM, whatever you want to call it, will KNOW what the system is doing by the O2 readings and dose as needed. IF the guy has done nothing to the programming of the ECM, it will log a fault, derate and eventually shut the engine off due to inefficiency at the NoX reduction part of the aftertreatment.

VW did some programming tricks that defeated aftertreatment operation, engineers at ARB were positive that there was a programming issue on the manufacturing end when they tested the vehicles, they were fine on emissions when stationary, but under load, they were way off. After years of questions, VW admitted to the programming issue, hence the VW buy back a few years ago.

After the VW fiasco, ARB went out and bought used diesel powered vehicles and hooked up a shiat ton of test equipment to see what the engines with miles/hours were doing. I was involved in the Cummins testing. The C powered things did fine, did just as the factory intended.....Cummins had DEF equipped engines in Europe 5 to 7 years prior to the intro here in the US, and they were working as expected. I talked with the ARB guys that brought the vehicles into the place I worked, and they said all were doing what the mfgrs stated they would/should do. Their job was to try and defeat the systems, including just water in the DEF system, unplugging, jumper plugs, and, yes, pee. All the engines tested, Cummins, Volvo, Mack, Isuzu, MB, Iveco, etc passed.

I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that the guy on YouTube defeated the system with just water and no programming tricks.

Just my

Edit, I forgot, there is also a DEF concentration sensor in the tank......

 

[G744]

According to the lubricity report, UMO doesn't hurt anything, but in my case that isn't why I do it...

One of our cars has over 200K on it since running that mixture. If it was going to hurt it, it would've done it by now.

Better using UMO in an older 60's design IDI engine than paying some guy to take it, or just dumping it like an idiot.

Besides, it makes your fuel $ go farther. The engines in question were in wide service before ULSD was even thought of. I can remember Diesel was 'oily' back then and made a decent degreasing solvent. ULSD is noted to be carcenogenic and I avoid getting it on me. It certainly is not 'oily'.

If one has a newer Diesel that uses urea (DEF) treatment, just do what the manufacturer says and don't worry.

D

 

[TechnoWeenie]

DEF is part water and part something else, don't remember

Urea

 

[TechnoWeenie]

I've used TC-W3 and swear by it. I've seen first hand what it's done to quiet engines, to run smoother, etc on both the NHC250 and 6.2L Detroit.

Optilube is supposed to be highest rated, and I believe that it's better than TC-W3, as the data supports it. However, due to cost and availability, I always end up going back to TC-W3.

The ratio for TC-W3 is supposed to be about 1 oz per gallon, and a gallon of TC-W3 is ~$12 at wallyworld... So, ~$12 for 128 gallons of treatment sounds good to me. I've also dumped an entire gallon into a 20 gallon tank (CUCV) with zero ill effects.

 

[Floridianson]

For those that have suggested it, what is the purpose of adding naptha to the recipe?

Just by googling I find it will lower cetane and decrease lubricity being a solvent. Just opposite of what we want as we want. If you do not believe in additives designed to help raise cetane and lubricity would seem like do not add anything.

 

[plym49]

I've used TC-W3 and swear by it. I've seen first hand what it's done to quiet engines, to run smoother, etc on both the NHC250 and 6.2L Detroit.

Optilube is supposed to be highest rated, and I believe that it's better than TC-W3, as the data supports it. However, due to cost and availability, I always end up going back to TC-W3.

The ratio for TC-W3 is supposed to be about 1 oz per gallon, and a gallon of TC-W3 is ~$12 at wallyworld... So, ~$12 for 128 gallons of treatment sounds good to me. I've also dumped an entire gallon into a 20 gallon tank (CUCV) with zero ill effects.

Thanks, I think I found some. Appreciate the reply.

 

[frank8003]

For those that have suggested it, what is the purpose of adding naptha to the recipe?

Naphtha is one of the main ingredients in Seafoam which some really like.
Attached is something I found about that and do read the MSDS.
Pale oil is another main ingrediant in Seafoam. Pale oil is an Naphthenic base oil having unique characteristics that make them well suited for use in specialized applications and environments. Also known as pale oil, naphthenic base oils contain much less wax than a comparable paraffinic base oil, which gives them much better low-temperature pour points in addition to higher solvency performance.


homebrew seafoam

Fuel issue , bad injection pump?

Just read comments again. Apparently you solved someone else's issue with your advice to the OP. Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk ???????? I always try and be a problem solver. Thank you.

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[frank8003]

DEF is part water and part something else, don't remember, it has been a few years since I left the workforce, used to know, but now kinda don't care. It is made to defrost at the same rate as the water it is mixed with, hence the heating system in the DEF fluid side. In the aftertreatment system, there are O2 sensors, usually at the exit of the turbo, entrance to the aftertreatment system, don't matter if it is a single or dual type, and at the exit of the system. The OBC, ECM, whatever you want to call it, will KNOW what the system is doing by the O2 readings and dose as needed. IF the guy has done nothing to the programming of the ECM, it will log a fault, derate and eventually shut the engine off due to inefficiency at the NoX reduction part of the aftertreatment.

VW did some programming tricks that defeated aftertreatment operation, engineers at ARB were positive that there was a programming issue on the manufacturing end when they tested the vehicles, they were fine on emissions when stationary, but under load, they were way off. After years of questions, VW admitted to the programming issue, hence the VW buy back a few years ago.

After the VW fiasco, ARB went out and bought used diesel powered vehicles and hooked up a shiat ton of test equipment to see what the engines with miles/hours were doing. I was involved in the Cummins testing. The C powered things did fine, did just as the factory intended.....Cummins had DEF equipped engines in Europe 5 to 7 years prior to the intro here in the US, and they were working as expected. I talked with the ARB guys that brought the vehicles into the place I worked, and they said all were doing what the mfgrs stated they would/should do. Their job was to try and defeat the systems, including just water in the DEF system, unplugging, jumper plugs, and, yes, pee. All the engines tested, Cummins, Volvo, Mack, Isuzu, MB, Iveco, etc passed.

I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that the guy on YouTube defeated the system with just water and no programming tricks.

Just my

Edit, I forgot, there is also a DEF concentration sensor in the tank......

interesting stuff here

defeat and pay $$$

 

[frank8003]

Urea

Chemical Name CAS # % by weight
Urea 57-13-6 synthetic Urea 32.5 %
Water 7732-18-5 DEIONIZED WATER 67.5%

 

[HDN]

Chemical Name CAS # % by weight
Urea 57-13-6 synthetic Urea 32.5 %
Water 7732-18-5 DEIONIZED WATER 67.5%

So it isn't even pure cow piss? I feel cheated!

 

[WillWagner]

It is actually a fertilizer. In tech classes, when we went through the process of checking DEF injector flow, we dumped the measured fluid in the planter. It was the greenest spot in the planter bed.

 

[Kommandant]

Going on a 2000 mile trip with my M35A2 so I will be pumping a lot of road diesel at truck stops.

I had planned to use two-cylce oil as a lubricity additive. Went to get some and all sold out due to boating season.

I did get 8 gallons of bar and chain oil from Wally World. Listed as 30 weight and I imagine it has few if any additives.

Will this be all right to use, and if so is a gallon to a full tank (50 gallons) a rich enough ratio?

While 2 stroke from Wally World is the best (S. Texas Research center did a test on several brands of additives), if you can’t find any, I run any type of oil thinned with auto trans fluid. I’ve processed my own waste oil & additives for years, followed by 15,000 checks fuel system (tank, lines, injectors, injector cups, etc) and my system looks brand new with 372,000 miles. Diesels run on oil as long as the system doesn’t have an optical sensor for the fuel, and your ratio is fine tuned by the amount of smoke (at idle) you care to see. ‘02 Ford PSD ran at 60% oil, ‘85 Mercedes’ OM617 ran at 90%. Anyway, good luck!

 

[frank8003]

For those that have suggested it, what is the purpose of adding naptha to the recipe?

naptha is seafoam

 

[msgjd]

we use a mix of diesel and highly-filtered WVO in everything that runs at a working load more than a couple hours a day , and of course this is only when temps are above 60F.. WVO is problematic if one does not have a processor or otherwise a real good way to separate the fat and filter the product.. We have been doing it for almost 20 years in the the M44-series, M39-series , M809-series, heavy equip, and pre-DEF commercial rigs .. Otherwise, new motor oil should be fine although ATF is better but with ATF you run the risk of DOT accusing you of running off-road dyed fuel .. Oddly, I did not see either of the latter in the lubricity test that was posted above .. Optilube appears by-far to be a good product and easy to obtain

 

[V8srfun]

To touch on the original question bar and chain oil would be my last choice I just feel like the possibility of a unknown negative Side effect would be risky on a long trip when you are trusting the truck to get you somewhere far away. If it did cause you one problem that forced you to get the truck towed to a shop on your trip you will be spending thousands of dollars vs just spending a couple dollars on a additive that is tried and true. The cost vs benefit analysis strongly leans towards not using bar and chain oil.