Hard Start Issue

[ezgn]

She fires, but very, very briefly ( a second or two), but won't keep running. Then, after that, she doesn't want to fire. She will crank all day long, as long as the batteries hold up (constantly charging them so I can troubleshoot).

The last three posts offer you some sound advice. Unless the remaing fuel has an abundance of water I think your problem may be caused by other issues. I would drain the tank as Rick has advised by removing the hose to the lift pump and siponing out the remaining fuel. I would then add 5 gallons of clean fuel and start the procedure that Rick advises and analyze the results from there. Once you determine you have clean fuel reaching your nozzels and no air in the system then a faulty injection pump as Rick has said would seem suspect.

 

[cucvrus]

I just had the tank out of that M1009 unit in July. It is in great condition. I replaced the sending unit with the last OEM GM one I had. I replaced the sock and all. I feel that pulling the line and siphoning all the fuel out is the only way to do it. It is not worth dropping the tank to get the fuel out. But filling it with more fuel is just making more contaminated fuel. Short of paying to dispose of the contaminated fuel, Giving it to a garage that burns waste oil. I would get a metal / steel pail and burn it off. An open flame will burn that stuff up in a few hours. 1 pail a day until it is gone. I would still get ALL the fuel out and put new in. Myself I would burn it up on a day trip. No problem. At the end I would just change the fuel filter and move on. I am hoping the injection pump is not bad but until I see that it has 8 operational glow plugs all nozzles getting clean fuel and everything working I would not jump at that as being the problem. A diesel will not run on ether starting fluid. And if there is fuel present I would give it a slight shot just to see if it starts. Used in the hands of a trained person it will hurt nothing. There is a very fine line between use and abuse. Very fine. Good Luck. Glow plugs out, bench tested, and back in less then 1/2 and hour. All 8. Not 4 and imagine the others are good. I bench test because as I pictured on here before I had glow plugs get red at the tip like normal and a few just make the shaft hot at the threads. Good Luck. I never knew this was an issue. I did nothing to the engine and only changed the fuel line from the filter to the injection pump. Seeing if it gets fuel to all 8 nozzles nuts is the next step after the glow plug removal. Clean fuel 100% untreated Clean #2 diesel Fuel.

 

[ssdvc]

OK, so after I got up the energy to shorten up the drive chain on my small tractors 48" snowblower and replace some items on the discharge chute, I climbed under the truck to see what was ahead of me. My first mistake was not wearing the knee brace I am supposed to be wearing after my surgery. The second mistake was forgetting I had the surgery and then kneeling down on the knee that I just had surgery on. OUCH ! This aging thing is kicking my ass !!

Anyway, after a small bout of bitching and moaning and rolling around of the floor, I shrugged it off, fetched my creeper (which I should have done in the first place) and got under the truck. I found the rubber hose coming from the tank and going to the pump.



I cannot get to the hose clamp (screw is on the back side of that hose), so my only alternative is to take a Dremel tool and CAREFULLY cut off the clamp, remove the damage section of the hose and go from there. So, does anyone know what the size of that hose is, in case I have to replace that short section? It looks like a regular fuel line, not a custom bent hose. I think I can use those "different" fuel line clamps when I am done, like the ones Rick used on the supply hose from the filter to the IP.

 

[cucvrus]

You can get that clamp. I put it on. I am not a magician. And looking at the picture of the line it appears to be a curved hose. A small ratchet with a 1/4" socket and you got this. If not take the hose off on the top side and add a short piece of 3/8" hose and siphon it from there. Report back.

 

[ezgn]

OK, so after I got up the energy to shorten up the drive chain on my small tractors 48" snowblower and replace some items on the discharge chute, I climbed under the truck to see what was ahead of me. My first mistake was not wearing the knee brace I am supposed to be wearing after my surgery. The second mistake was forgetting I had the surgery and then kneeling down on the knee that I just had surgery on. OUCH ! This aging thing is kicking my ass !!

Anyway, after a small bout of bitching and moaning and rolling around of the floor, I shrugged it off, fetched my creeper (which I should have done in the first place) and got under the truck. I found the rubber hose coming from the tank and going to the pump.

View attachment 857647

I cannot get to the hose clamp (screw is on the back side of that hose), so my only alternative is to take a Dremel tool and CAREFULLY cut off the clamp, remove the damage section of the hose and go from there. So, does anyone know what the size of that hose is, in case I have to replace that short section? It looks like a regular fuel line, not a custom bent hose. I think I can use those "different" fuel line clamps when I am done, like the ones Rick used on the supply hose from the filter to the IP.

Like Rick said the hose will come off. The hose is a curved molded hose that is obsolete. Corvette pump 1970-1982 main fuel line flex hose C3 is available as a suitable replacement. Amazon carries it as do other corvette parts dealers.

 

[ssdvc]

3/8" fuel line, thanks Rick. I will try and reach it. I just had knee surgery last Wednesday, so crawling around topside is not possible right now, but maybe in a week. So I'll give it a shot, and if your suggestion doesn't work, I think I'll go with your plan B and try to disconnect from the hardline coming from the tank.

Ezgn, thanks for the fuel line replacement tip. Just ordered.

 

[cucvrus]

I did make the curved feed line from straight 3/8" hose and it has never been an issue. I do recall it had to be just a bit longer and I used split loom to wrap it in as a protector. Good Luck. But getting it drained completely should be easy and even flushing it with a gallon of known clean fuel would be helpful.

 

[ssdvc]

The flushing thing is a good tip, thanks Rick.

 

[cucvrus]

Just keep in mind that the fuel in the injection pump and filter assembly is still contaminated. It will self-clean once you get it started. Good Luck.

 

[ssdvc]

Ok, finished syphoning the fuel tank until I got nothing but air. Disconnected the line at the point where the rubber line connected to the hard line coming from the tank. Went and got 10 gallons of fresh diesel. Put 5 gallons in and did some additional syphoning to bring the fuel up to the line break. Reconnected everything, disconnected the pink wire and turned her over. She cranked, but no fire, which I expected. Kept cranking until the batteries told me they had enough. Swapped out the fuel filter (filled the new one up with fresh diesel), checked all the lines, etc. It will probably be tomorrow morning before she is charged up enough to try again, but I am hopeful. It will also be close to 50 outside and I will fire up the propane heater n the garage for a few hours and bring it up to as high as possible to give me every edge possible.

I also managed to burn off 20 gallons of contaminated fuel this morning. It was raining, so that helped keep the nasty smoke in check. It took about 45 minutes for each 5 gallon batch to completely burn off. The remaining 10 gallons, which has sat for a couple of days, looked to be as clear as the fresh fuel I picked up today. I will try and used it a little at a time. I think it was a waste to burn to the 20 gallons like that, but none of the folks I tracked down that had waste oil burners wanted it and the town doesn't have a means for proper disposal. What a bummer.

 

[cucvrus]

Did you remove the glow plugs and have the nozzle nuts loosened during the air purge? That is how I start trucks after a frame off and reinstalling the engine. That is the only way I found to get enough cranking speed to purge the air. I also get a visual on the glow plugs. Something is wrong here. But I would want to see all 8 delivery nozzles getting fuel or not getting fuel before I jump on the pump. And yes, even new glow plugs fail. By design it has fuel it and it has known working glow plugs. You check all this and after seeing you are good. Button it all up and should be fire in the hole. Good Luck.

 

[ssdvc]

OK, So this morning, I warmed up the garage to about 65 degrees, Had a 250W work light under the oil pan all night long and ran a heat gun down the intake for about 20 minutes or more. Then had the wife try to start her while I kept the heat gun on the intake. She turned over great, but no fire. I tried it again with a tiny shot of starter fluid in the intake (and I mean tiny). She sounded like she was about to fire for about 1/2 second, but again, no joy. I diid pull the glow plugs and finally figured out to to bench test them. All are good (and hot).



I have again removed the glow plugs (easy to spin the engine, from what I have read) and I am about to crack the injectors next, before I put the glow plugs back in, to see if I am getting fuel from the IP.

Question. I want to double check to make sure I have this right, but the pink wire on top of the IP is to activate the fuel solenoid in the IP, is that correct? What are the other two (green) wired connections for? I think one is cold start, what is the other for? I want to test the fuel solenoid by putting 12v to it and seeing if I can hear it click. If no click, that could indicate a failed solenoid, correct? Given the sudden failure to start, with zero degradation in power and no other running issues, could this solenoid failure be the cause of this issue? Any info and thoughts are appreciated.

I have been looking around the net and noticed that this particular part of the IP is available and replaceable with the IP still place. Waiting to charge the batteries back up and I'll report back once I bleed all the injectors.

 

[cucvrus]

You do NOT need the glow plugs back on the engine in order to bleed the nozzles. I would spin it over with the delivery nozzles loose. See if fuel is coming out. The heavy wire (red/pink) is the 12 volts on wire. With a test light see if you have 12 volts when the switch is turned on and off with the key off. The 2 green wires are for the cold advance and the fast idle. I personally have never seen the solenoid go bad. But it does happen. And glow plugs don't need to go back in the same holes. And you are sure the glow plugs are getting electric to them, and the relay is not just bad. What I mean is with a cold start the electric must get to the glow plugs thru the glow plug relay. Top stud is always hot, and the bottom stud gets hot when key on cold engine. Check that. I see several glow plug relays not pass the electric to the bottom stud be it from slag or something inside the relay. That is easy enough. Report back. Good Luck.

 

[ssdvc]

While poking around this afternoon, I managed to get a peek at my IP model number tag. It is a DB 2829 - 4524. I looked up that model number and I believe it correlates to 86/89 HMMWV. Is this the original IP for my 84 09 ?

 

[cucvrus]

I have no clue what the numbers mean on the injection pumps. I do know it ran great for the past 8 years and there were no issues. So, the incorrect pump can be ruled out.

 

[ssdvc]

I don't think it is an incorrect pump at all, not what I am saying. I just think it indicates there was a replacement at some point in time. Probably a better pump (upgraded internals to deal with evolving diesel?) than the original.

 

[ssdvc]

OK, finished cracking the injectors. Got fuel from all. So, tank drained, new fuel in tank, new filters, glow plugs tested, SAT and reinstalled and injectors cracked and all have fuel going to them. Don't know what else it could be.

She is buttoned back up and I am waiting for batteries to charge back up so I can try and fire her up. I have to say, without the GP's installed, that starter rolls that motor over like nobodies business!!! FAST !!

Anyway, she should be ready to try around noon. Fingers crossed

 

[ssdvc]

SHE LIVES !!!!!!!!!! Turned the key, cranked for 2 seconds and she fired right up. First time she went real high on the revs (way high), so I had to shut her down. I was crossing my fingers that she would start right back up, normally, which she did. Went to high idle, but then my foot tapped the pedal and the revs went really high. Again, I shut her down. Now I was getting worried. Went under the hood and made a slight adjustment on the idle screw and made sure all the parts and pieces were lubed up and operating properly. Third time is the charm and sure enough, lite her off again and all was well. I let her idle for 20 minutes and then took her for a ride, got gas and made sure everything was hot, straight and normal.

When I pulled into the gas station I heard a scraping noise. Got out to fill up and noticed my tailpipe had fallen down. Expected, later than sooner. Time for some exhaust work.



When I got home, I started cleaning up all the tools and stuff I had out to work on her. Looked underneath and this is what I saw.



It is coming from the engine/trans mating area, so I am guessing that I have what looks like a pretty serious rear seal leak. I hate leaks !!!! Due to knee surgery, I can't crawl around underneath for a little while longer. Anyone want to come over and replace my rear seal for me? I'll help, and plenty of beverage of your choice could be on hand, plus an hourly wage to boot.

Anyway, I am really glad she is back up and running. It had me worried for a while, but thanks to all the help here, I got it done !! THANK YOU!!

 

[cucvrus]

Good Deal. No before you go all sure about the oil leak check everything up top. I changed rear main seals at customers' requests, and it was the vacuum pump seal leaking or a valve cover. Everything that leaks into the valley of the engine up top drains out the rear hole in the valley appearing to be a rear main seal. At this point if you hate leaks pull the engine and replace every gasket. Because a 35-year-old truck will leak oil and whatever else it wants to leak. These trucks leaked oil since new. Just saying be sure of your leak before you proceed. It never ends. Like the movie Money Pit. Boats are the same way. Good Luck.

 

[ssdvc]

RGR all Rick. Thanks for the top about the valve covers and vacuum pump. Didn't know about the valley and I will check before I tear anything apart. That said, that oil leak is now fairly significant, as I discovered that it was dripping all the way up the driveway. Got all the stuff to do an oil change, but I want to wait until I find the leak.

I did find the two leaks on the trans. One was the pan gasket which I took care of (some of the bolts were loose) and one is coming from the modulator on the side of the trans. I am checking to see what seal goes on that so I can replace it.

Otherwise, the truck runs strong, just like before. Only now, with the new rear pumpkin and axles and rebuilt trans I don't have the loud bang coming from the rear and the trans isn't slipping when it's cold (thanks Rick).