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Heating oil vs offroad diesel in MEP802A
- Thread starter kzguy2
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bearboley
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No difference in #2 Highway and Off Road Diesel, when you load it at the rack the Green Diesel goes in and injects red dye in it as its loading in transport. K-1 , HHO, Jet A is pretty much the same thing, it all loads out of the same arm at the loading rack. Premium #1 Diesel is #2 and k-1 mix like 80-20 most of the time depending on air temp and target cloud point. Anyhow if I where to have it as standby power and heated with fuel oil I would run it off my HHO tank and never think twice about it.
Ratch
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I saw a few of those. Some looked like they had them and they were removed. I'd love to have a heater rig like that, but reality is it will never get cold enough near me to *need* it.
Keep an eye on it when you use it, make sure nothing catches fire...
Ratch
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Anyone ever try hydraulic oil? I have a few buckets with brand new oil I can't get out, I was wondering if it would mix well with diesel, or have some kind of reaction. I could get the thinner diesel out of the bucket much easier.
Ray70
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Ratch, I've heard you can actually burn straight hydraulic oil in a diesel, but I have been mixing it 75/25 with HHO and using it in my backhoe, Lull and generators with no problems for a couple years now. When I bought the Lull the hyd. oil was contaminated with water so I drained it all (40+ gl.) boiled out the water using a propane turkey fryer and a metal 5 gl bucket and used up the entire 40gl with no problems.
kzguy2
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I would say try running it straight and see what she does! Then go from there. 75/25 seems like a good mix. How about mixing in some filtered used motor oil? I run a waste oil heater in my garage and always having surplus oil on hand...
Let me know how it works out Ratch
Let me know how it works out Ratch
Ratch
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Well my tractor is now having serious hydraulic issues after replacing some hoses and adding oil, so I suspect I'll be draining and changing the fluid and filter soon.
That turkey fryer idea is pretty good!
I won't run it straight, but I'll mix it. Mostly because there's normally about a pint of hydraulic oil left in the buckets that I can wash out with diesel rather than let it go to waste.
Though at this point, I'll probably use the buckets for the 10 gallons that will come out of the tractor. Then I'll mix it probably more like 50 percent just to thin it out and avoid gunking the filters too fast. I also have about 10 gallons of used motor oil I'd like to mix in, just don't know anything about the 802a injection system and if it will screw it up like an injection pump.
That turkey fryer idea is pretty good!
I won't run it straight, but I'll mix it. Mostly because there's normally about a pint of hydraulic oil left in the buckets that I can wash out with diesel rather than let it go to waste.
Though at this point, I'll probably use the buckets for the 10 gallons that will come out of the tractor. Then I'll mix it probably more like 50 percent just to thin it out and avoid gunking the filters too fast. I also have about 10 gallons of used motor oil I'd like to mix in, just don't know anything about the 802a injection system and if it will screw it up like an injection pump.
Ray70
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Several people have said that you can burn motor oil in a diesel, but I have always stayed away from it. I've heard that you can get a lot of hard crunchy ash build-up on valves and on the pistons from all the carbon and junk in the oil. Clean new motor oil may be a different story, but why would anyone burn new oil?? I'd be leary of burning used motor oil, but that's just me. I'm sure others will chime in that have more experience with motor oil, I'd be interested to hear how it performs.
kzguy2
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Well I dont see why anybody would burn new oil! Lol. Too expensive! I run my clean burn waste oil heater with used motor oil and ive been told to not burn new motor oil due to the detergents and other additives. Apparently it doesnt burn as well as used motor oil. So I would say no, dont run new motor oil un a diesel.
Ratch
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I just remembered, I've heard not to burn synthetic, which is all I run in my cars/trucks/bike. I run dino-juice in my tractors, but change the oil once a year if even that often, so not much used oil collected.
The hesitation I have about burning used motor oil is the engine wear particles suspended in it. I don't want to be running what's basically sandpaper through my injection pump. It may not matter, and every time the debate comes up, there're a dozen people that have been doing it for years with no problems...
The hesitation I have about burning used motor oil is the engine wear particles suspended in it. I don't want to be running what's basically sandpaper through my injection pump. It may not matter, and every time the debate comes up, there're a dozen people that have been doing it for years with no problems...
Ratch
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Another question... Why is it so important to get the water out of the diesel?
I know on it's face, that sounds like a pretty stupid question. Water will decrease the BTU yield of the fuel, if it doesn't render it unusable altogether...
But I've burned water-contaminated diesel before with no noticeable difference in performance. And I've forgotten to drain the separator every time I've run my 002, with no ill results. Thinking about it at the moment, I probably have about 75 hours through my 002, and I still have yet to drain it...
I know on it's face, that sounds like a pretty stupid question. Water will decrease the BTU yield of the fuel, if it doesn't render it unusable altogether...
But I've burned water-contaminated diesel before with no noticeable difference in performance. And I've forgotten to drain the separator every time I've run my 002, with no ill results. Thinking about it at the moment, I probably have about 75 hours through my 002, and I still have yet to drain it...
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The fuel you burn lubricates the injection pump plunger. As long as you filter the used oil in a centrifuge it should be fine. If you don't plan on filtering it, plan on buying new pumps. You would be much better off starting with hydraulic oil or ATF and filtering it.
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Ray70
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I think you just answered your own question on the motor oil... since you use mostly synthetic and don't have much used oil anyway, why take a chance with it?? What will you save in fuel cost each year, <$20 a year? Why chance causing hundreds of $$ in damage to your genny for the sake of a couple bucks. Wreck your injection pump and your wallet will be wishing you had thrown the old oil away!
On the water in the oil question, The problem is that the water will not be dissolved into the oil, it will just be suspended in it and sitting on the bottom of the tank until you start it up and the vibration stirs it up. If you get water that makes it to the injector it will cause misfires and steam in the cyl. at a minimum. if left sitting with water in the right place it could cause rust in places you realy don't want rust. It will also freeze in the winter and can cause clogged lines and possibly broken parts from the expansion. It can crack and rust out spin-on filters, lines and God only knows what would happen if you had water in the IP and it froze! Think your 002 will say on it to drain the filters every 100 hours. I'd also suggest doing it just before winter sets in each year too, if the machine will see temps below freezing.
On the water in the oil question, The problem is that the water will not be dissolved into the oil, it will just be suspended in it and sitting on the bottom of the tank until you start it up and the vibration stirs it up. If you get water that makes it to the injector it will cause misfires and steam in the cyl. at a minimum. if left sitting with water in the right place it could cause rust in places you realy don't want rust. It will also freeze in the winter and can cause clogged lines and possibly broken parts from the expansion. It can crack and rust out spin-on filters, lines and God only knows what would happen if you had water in the IP and it froze! Think your 002 will say on it to drain the filters every 100 hours. I'd also suggest doing it just before winter sets in each year too, if the machine will see temps below freezing.
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Water in the fuel is not as big an issue as the fuel becoming water, i.e. you suddenly get mostly or all water to the engine. The water can hit the hot injectors and blow them apart as it turns to steam.
Rapracing
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I'm no expert but I been told it can also scar the cylinder walls. I should say when I was told that it was in regards to 2 cycle gas engines so I'd assume it could be hard on anything?
Ratch
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Well, that's pretty logical on the water.
But I've collected so much of it that I don't have a place to recycle it. I have at least 10 of the Walmart 5 quart containers, plus a 5 gallon bucket. It wouldn't be to save money so much as to get rid of it. I drive a lot for work, so I have a fairly steady supply of used oil... Shops have flat out said "no" when I asked if they'd take it.
I'm not worried about it, a waste oil burner will take it, just crossed my mind to burn it in the gensets as a regular disposal.
BTW, as to who would burn new oil... My dad has a garage full of really old cans of Mobil dino (conventional) oil (as in cardboard cans that require a can opener). With modern synthetics being a billion times better for an engine (don't want to fire up the debate, but even old engines), there's nothing I'd use this in as lube. I'll probably bring it all home and run it through the generators without a second thought...if I can get past his junk to reach it...
That's why I don't run it in the 002. I'm not filtering with a centrifuge. It'll be lucky if I pour it through a shop rag...
But I've collected so much of it that I don't have a place to recycle it. I have at least 10 of the Walmart 5 quart containers, plus a 5 gallon bucket. It wouldn't be to save money so much as to get rid of it. I drive a lot for work, so I have a fairly steady supply of used oil... Shops have flat out said "no" when I asked if they'd take it.
I'm not worried about it, a waste oil burner will take it, just crossed my mind to burn it in the gensets as a regular disposal.
BTW, as to who would burn new oil... My dad has a garage full of really old cans of Mobil dino (conventional) oil (as in cardboard cans that require a can opener). With modern synthetics being a billion times better for an engine (don't want to fire up the debate, but even old engines), there's nothing I'd use this in as lube. I'll probably bring it all home and run it through the generators without a second thought...if I can get past his junk to reach it...
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Ray70
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Guess in some respects I'm lucky. I live near the town transfer station and we are allowed to bring all our motor oil there for free recycling.
I bring 5 gl at a time with no questions asked. Other towns in RI only allow 5Gl per year and they take down your address and keep track.
Problem I see is that when they make it difficult to get rid of it, that's when people start doing stupid stuff like pouring it down storm drains, hiding it in the trash and leaving buckets in parking lots etc. If they made it easier to recycle we might have less pollution
I bring 5 gl at a time with no questions asked. Other towns in RI only allow 5Gl per year and they take down your address and keep track.
Problem I see is that when they make it difficult to get rid of it, that's when people start doing stupid stuff like pouring it down storm drains, hiding it in the trash and leaving buckets in parking lots etc. If they made it easier to recycle we might have less pollution
Ratch
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I agree. I'm not going to pollute with it no matter what, but it sure would be nice if it was easier to recycle.
Crazy. Here in upstate NY, we got mechanics fighting over used oil. Wanted to buy ads on clist for used oil are also common. Most local car repair shops here in NY (including my old timer guy) burn waste oil/ used motor oil in a motor oil heater for the shop. My guy smiles every time i leave him a few gallons. He claims even with all the free used oil he gets, he still has to buy a few tank fulls of fuel oil yearly.