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heavy hauling question

FreightTrain

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Here is the senario.Say i have a large peice of Antique equipment I would like to take to shows and or "Runs".Said peice of equipment is 25 tons.Could I legally and safely use a 5 ton tractor and low boy trailer to haul it in the south east(Alabama,Mississippi,Tennessee,Georgia,North and South Carolina) without the use of a CDL as long as I put NOT for hire on teh side?
 

texas-5-ton

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Grandview, TX
Towing that much weight would get you in trouble with the highway patrol. As mentioned above, anything over 26,001 requires a Class A(in Texas), but it would NOT have to be commercial. The class A only would cover a combination for the 26,001 or over. CLASS A CDL COVERS 26,001 COMMERCIAL COMBINATION. SO if you are not for hire or earn revenue with your truck, A simple class A is all you need. You might ought to Check in Alabama just to make sure.

Chad
 

PWM

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Saint Maries, Idaho
Freight Train

Try to contact Alabama D.P.S . Motor Carrier Safety Unit they should give you the answer you are looking for. I work with Idaho’s version(CVSA) on a daily basis, If your states is anything like mine they will be more than happy to answer your questions.
P.O. Box 1511
Montgomery, AL 36102
Phone: 334-242-4395

Pete
 

builder77

In Memorial
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It depends on your state requirements. In Virginia personal use is exempt from needing a CDL. One of my past post covered all the Virginia law.
 

ida34

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I hate to contradict info hear but if you are not carrying for hire then you do not need a cdl. Some states require a non-cdl class or endorsement for certain types of vehicles for combinations but most are for very specific stuff. The agricultural excepts are there because farmers are making money by hauling the stuff to marked and such. They are using the vehicles to make living so they would need a cdl without the ag exception. Think about a 40 foot moving van and a trailer towed behind it. These combinations would go over the 26001 limit but is still legal because you are just hauling your own stuff. If you were hauling someone elses stuff to make some money (even gas money) you would need a CDL. The 26001 limit is a limit that triggers a cdl only for commercial operators. Many already know I am a LEO and have researched this a lot to dispel some of the urban myths. I can't speak to the specific states but I can speak as to Michigan and a few other states I have researched.

There also seems to be a lot of confusion because some people speak of special classes and automatically call them a CDL when they really are just simply a class A or such this pretty much mirrors what was said above. In MI you would not need anything besides a regular O type or operator's license to tow what you are speaking of. The only special combination of private vehicles that need an endorsement is a truck towing a fifth wheel trailer and then towing a second trailer behind the first trailer. These combinations require a recreational tandem endorsement. If I ever get a chance to sit down and do the research, I want to make up a state by state guide on the laws. I have seen that a lot of LEO's are misinformed about this also. This is why I always run things by my motor carrier enforcement officer and this is why I tell everyone to run things by the local motor carrier enforcement officer instead of just the SGT or officer on duty.
 

ida34

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Another thing to mention. When you do speak to someone ask them what law or statute covers what they just told you so that you can look at it yourself and print it out to keep with you in case you get an uninformed officer. If they can't tell you the statute then they are probably just guessing or repeating what they have heard. Keep going until you find it in black and white.
 

Westech

CPL
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cow farts, Wisconsin
heck I have hauled over 30K with my 2500 HD many times.... you can get away with just about anything as long as you dont look like a company and just a normal guy hauling some junk.. and with a military truck... no one going to touch you
 

FreightTrain

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Thanks guys.I wonder if I could get away with this using the deuce.I know there are equipment trailers out there that can haul much more than 25 tons but the problem would be height.The peice I am thinking about trying to get is about as tall as a 5 ton truck.maybe more.
 

CGarbee

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Raleigh, NC
One of my duties at work is teaching/testing CDL drivers and I work with the Motor Carrier Enforcement officers next door quite often and the inaccuracies about CDL requirements is a pet peeve for us... The examples given are for NC (since that is where I am, as Chuck says above, check your locality for YOUR specifics, and keep a copy of the Statute with you in case somebody questions you about things).

Federal law is based on use of the vehicle as well as by weight (and by cargo type in the case of hazardous materials) as long as the driver is not compensated in any fashion; he will not need a CDL regardless of weight. The CDL is for Commercial (compensated) hauling.

So, if he is not hauling commercially:
He will need a non-commercial operator's permit if he:
Operates any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001lbs or more, and any such vehicle towing a vehicle (trailer) with a GVWR not in excess of 10,000lbs.

(The above in NC is a Class B)

Alternatively:
He will need a non-commercial operator's permit if he:
Operates any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001lbs or more, and any such vehicle towing a vehicle (trailer) with a GVWR in excess of 10,001lbs.

(The above in NC is a Class A)

The weight descriptions and classes are standardized from the CFR (Federal Regulations) with the NC class name given here as an example; other states may use different class names.

Since the testing requirements for CDL versus non-CDL operator's permits for any given class/endorsement combination are the same, it usually is just as convenient to go ahead and get the CDL and avoid possible issues in the future if somebody chips in for fuel, or pays your hotel room, etc., and a LEO decides to make an issue of it. You do have to get a medical waiver, but there are three different Federal exemptions for the medical card. Most of us can likely honestly meet one of the exception requirements.

That said, your locality is allowed to have more stringent requirements than that set forth in the Federal Codes. I'm not sure about California law, for instance, but I think that they have tinkered with the CDL requirements for their residents.

A CDL is a Commercial Operator's Permit and is issued for a given class of vehicle and has endorsements (such as air brake, tank, hazmat). It will state CDL Class X with the X being one of the classes such as I listed above.

A non-CDL Operator Operator's Permit is issued for the same given classes of vehicles and can have the same endorsements, but it will NOT have CDL listed on the license. It will just state that it is a Class B with Tank for instance.

Your "standard" non-commercial operator's permit does not list a class or endorsement for many states although quite a few have started listing the class/restriction.

An example (using NC again):

Class C: Operates any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,000lbs or less, and any such vehicle towing a vehicle (trailer) with a GVWR not in excess of 10,000lbs.

North Carolina puts A, B, or C on the front of the permit with the class and the definition on the back. Endorsements (such as airbrake, tank, hazmat, etc.) are listed on the front by code with definitions listed on the back under the class definition.

If you get a CDL in NC, the permit gets a big "Commercial Driver License" right smack dab in the top center right between the "State of North Carolina" banner at the top and block of text that contains you name and address. If you don't have a CDL, the area where the CDL banner goes is blank.

One further bit that some folks overlook: You can get a CDL class C, hazmat. As an example: drive a van with a load of high explosives that are required to be placarded (application of those diamond tags on the front, back, and both sides warning everyone that you have hazmat, and listing by color, design, and number code what it is in order to inform emergency responders, bridge/tunnel inspectors, etc. of your load)

Hope this helps, and doesn’t confuse the issue too much…
 

jimk

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Well that was the best answer I have heard yet. The Class A would be needed, CDL or not.

It is important to remember that while you may get away with some overloading there is tremendous liability issues if there is an accident (i.e any w/injury or death), even if you are not at fault. Expect that law enforcement will take a real close look and be unforgiving of -any- violation.

They way folks drive these days (and sue) being careful does not make you immune. JimK
 

rmgill

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Decatur, Ga
I have a Non-Commercial Class A license. It took beating the license office with a letter from the State AG to get them to give me the license because they'd never given one to someone not a farmer or firefighter before. When I asked the State AG's office about it initially, they even said I needed to be a fireman or farmer. When I rephrased the question to "what are the requirements for a non-commercial Class-A license according to such and such code?", the lawyer read the code then realized I was right and sent me a letter which I took to the state license office.

Georgia does have an issue in that they may gig me for their current administrative interpretation as to what is needed for a certain license, but if they persist with that interpretation, then they're in breach of compliance with Federal requirements. It all comes down to how 'recreational vehicle' is interpreted under Ga law. It is un-defined and if it is interpreted to mean a vehicle with a bed/toilet, then even commercially used vehicles may skate past CDL requirements using nothing but a Class C. So, I have an ace in the hole if I ever have to go to court on my Class A non Commercial.
 

jimk

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Said peice of equipment is 25 tons.Could I legally and safely use a 5 ton tractor and low boy trailer to haul it
One chink in your 'armor' would be the 5T's [typical] max towed load at rating of 30,000. You'll have 50K plus a 10K(?) trailer.JimK
 

NEIOWA

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NE IOWA
What is the benefit of a Non-Commercial Class A license vs a Commercial Class A license?

Less expensive??
 

jwaller

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Columbia, SC
rmgill said:
I have a Non-Commercial Class A license. It took beating the license office with a letter from the State AG to get them to give me the license because they'd never given one to someone not a farmer or firefighter before. When I asked the State AG's office about it initially, they even said I needed to be a fireman or farmer. When I rephrased the question to "what are the requirements for a non-commercial Class-A license according to such and such code?", the lawyer read the code then realized I was right and sent me a letter which I took to the state license office.

Georgia does have an issue in that they may gig me for their current administrative interpretation as to what is needed for a certain license, but if they persist with that interpretation, then they're in breach of compliance with Federal requirements. It all comes down to how 'recreational vehicle' is interpreted under Ga law. It is un-defined and if it is interpreted to mean a vehicle with a bed/toilet, then even commercially used vehicles may skate past CDL requirements using nothing but a Class C. So, I have an ace in the hole if I ever have to go to court on my Class A non Commercial.

this sounds like exactly what I need. did you have to take any tests to go with this or was it simply issued to you? can you forward this letter to me so I might be able to get the same license?
 

FreightTrain

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Heck,Guess I will just go ahead and get the finger and CDL.Less Future headaches and when our company goes belly up(GOD D*** CHINESE IMPORTS) I can hitch a ride real easy.
 

CGarbee

Well-known member
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Location
Raleigh, NC
NEIOWA said:
What is the benefit of a Non-Commercial Class A license vs a Commercial Class A license?

Less expensive??

The only real difference (in North Carolina, your state may vary) is the Medical Req. As I stated above, a CDL has a medical (physical) requriement attached to it that is not present for a non-CDL. The CDL medical can be waived for certain instances that I suspect most of us hobbiest can utilize.

Cost of the permit and tests (skills and knowledge) are the same.

There are time of service rules for commercial drivers that are not applied to non-commercial drivers, but as has been stated above, if you get in an accident and somebody notices that you have been on the road for a long time, you might get some heartburn as a result... :(

The real benefit that I can see is that if you have a Commercial permit, you are expected to know and follow all the Commercial Regulations. If you have a non-Commercial permit, you could reasonably be assumed to not know all the Commercial regulations...
 

Michael

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Fulton, MS
As a country doctor that occasionally does medical cards, I would like to point out that they are getting harder to get. I flunk about 1 out of 5 for blood pressure alone. Also the feds are in the formulating phase of passing a certification program for medical examiners. This will probably drive the price of getting the cards up as well as weeding out a lot of the doctors who are giving the cards without doing a real exam. In MS you have to have a medical card to get your CDL renewed even if you are not driving commercially at the time. I don't know much about the waivers that were mentioned but I do know that they are not being offered to those that wish to renew their CDLs.

I was told by someone on the MV mailing list that TN doesn't require any special license to drive a privately owned MV of any size for personal use. I also know that MS doesn't have a non CDL class A license.

There is a lot of baggage that goes with a CDL like the medical card, log books, safety eq., time in service, etc. There is also lower blood alcohol limits and commercial insurance rates to consider. I personally have decided to stay under the limit and not worry about it.
 

jasonjc

Well-known member
5,326
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Gravette Ar.
The thing you need to look at is the fact that you will be close if not over the 80,000lbs. That take permites. No mater what. And what is going to happen is the scoer mom in the minivan full of kids talking on her cell phone is going to pull out in front of you. And you in the deuce pulling 60,000lbs is going flatten that minivan killing her and the 8 kids. Not only will you lose every thing you have. But some lawer/polation is going to say that these old army trucks are deadly and they ALL need to be removed for the roads. And there goes all are truck's. Is it woth all that. A use OTR truck and trailer is not that much. 2cents
 
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