Hello folks. M1008, convert to Veg Oil?

[azex]

I love the "take a look at those threads" feature.

Sweet.

OK, I have an 84 M1008, and the costs of low sulphur (non lubricating) D#2 is obscene and there are literally hundreds of sites related to converting 12V vehicles to WVO, or Waste Vegetable Oil, after proper filtering.

Most involve heated tanks, heat exchangers using a coolant line tapped from the heater hoses, etc...etc...

I live in a hot climate, AZ, and I'm wondering if an in-tank heater, run off the 24v circuits, after sufficient warm up would suffice instead of tapping the coolant lines to heat the 2nd WVO tank to operating or "flowing" temperatures in order to be used by the diesel engine.

Please, let me hear your ideas. If I had my druthers, I'd use nothing but filtered used ATF as it's superior lubricity has been recommended by more than a few diesel mechanics as an "every other tank" additive to "pump" Dino Diesel to keep the 26 y/o injector pump working well.

D.

 

[Mudstone]

you do know there is an entire section of the forums dedicated to alternative fuels and WMO? answer to all your questions is contained within. but as far as i have found the cucv will not work with 100% WMO

 

[Keith_J]

Please don't. Vegetable oils are reactive and turn to varnish/sludge in the high pressure/high temperature injection system.

Injection pumps are high pressure hydraulics built like Swiss watches. They demand clean, non-reactive diesel.

While it may run, it won't for long.

 

[4thesporty]

WVO has been the scourge of many older MB diesel lovers like me. It really does very bad things to an engine if not used correctly. If you must run something other than D2, go with a real biodiesel setup.

 

[jag7720]

Please... I have been running WVO for 5 years.... NO problems. As have thousands of others.

Yes you can do it but only do it with a separate heated system... no matter where you live. the WVO needs to be heated to change the viscosity so it will inject like diesel

I have been running my M1009 for the last two years and before that I was running an 85 Mercedes 300D

As far as diesel pumps... and injectors... CLEAN your wvo. I have a centrifuge (simplecentrifuge.com) that I use to clean the food and water out of the oil. I gets the oil in the 1 to 2 micron area... which is well below the National Diesel Standards.

Two stress points... Heated system and Clean oil.


Don't go with a single tank system... WVO will react with the steel tank and if you ever have a clod morning... you will not be able t start your truck.


Go over to frybrid.com and do some studying. Ask a lot of questions from people that ARE running wvo. Then make the choice.



The entire thing is a commitment. So don get into it unless you are willing to collect dirty wvo and clean it... or find someone like me that will clean it for you.

 

[jag7720]

Oh, and one other thing about using trans fluid... It is fine to put a quart in a full tank every once in a while. But you would not want to run on straight trans fluid unless you are in a pinch.

There are too many additives and such that will cause issues in the cylinder when it gets burned in larger quantities. I have researched trans fluid and the like as I had a clean supply of it for about 25 cents per gallon.

 

[4thesporty]

Please... I have been running WVO for 5 years.... NO problems. As have thousands of others.

Yes you can do it but only do it with a separate heated system... no matter where you live. the WVO needs to be heated to change the viscosity so it will inject like diesel

I have been running my M1009 for the last two years and before that I was running an 85 Mercedes 300D

As far as diesel pumps... and injectors... CLEAN your wvo. I have a centrifuge (simplecentrifuge.com) that I use to clean the food and water out of the oil. I gets the oil in the 1 to 2 micron area... which is well below the National Diesel Standards.

Two stress points... Heated system and Clean oil.


Don't go with a single tank system... WVO will react with the steel tank and if you ever have a clod morning... you will not be able t start your truck.


Go over to frybrid.com and do some studying. Ask a lot of questions from people that ARE running wvo. Then make the choice.



The entire thing is a commitment. So don get into it unless you are willing to collect dirty wvo and clean it... or find someone like me that will clean it for you.

Correct. I am saying that it is very harmful to engines when people use it when they know little or nothing about it. You are someone who does know how to use it correctly, where 80% of people using it do not. Look how many cars lovecraft ruined because people did not know what they were doing.

 

[azex]

This is why I ask...and LMAO'd that the first reply I got was...

"silly n00b, there's already a whole area for this".

D2 sucks, its what...11 micron? Euros get cleaner diesel fuel than we do. The price gouging at the pumps is akin to Racketeering, but guys with little ****s and F350s will pay and pay and pay.

One tank systems don't seem to make sense on 12v vehicles. I was imagining they may make more sense on the 24v circuits.

Which is why I asked for any ideas or real-world experience.

I am pleased I got at least one response from someone who is actually "getting dirty" and doing it, instead of the "he said, he said, I think and a mechanic told me once".

Not really interested in anecdotes, just After Action Reports.

D.

 

[azex]

Anyone heard of this?

Diesel Secret Energy - Alternative Biofuel Biodiesel

D.

 

[Keith_J]

This is why I ask...and LMAO'd that the first reply I got was...

"silly n00b, there's already a whole area for this".

D2 sucks, its what...11 micron? Euros get cleaner diesel fuel than we do. The price gouging at the pumps is akin to Racketeering, but guys with little ****s and F350s will pay and pay and pay.

One tank systems don't seem to make sense on 12v vehicles. I was imagining they may make more sense on the 24v circuits.

Which is why I asked for any ideas or real-world experience.

I am pleased I got at least one response from someone who is actually "getting dirty" and doing it, instead of the "he said, he said, I think and a mechanic told me once".

Not really interested in anecdotes, just After Action Reports.

D.

Please stop the madness. European diesel isn't any "cleaner" than USA ASTM specification. All diesel is DISTILLED, not only "filtered" from crude. There is no "racket" with the price, it is much more expensive since the mandate for ULSD.

And the M1008, 1010, 1028 and 1031 are one ton, so they are equivalent to F350s.

The problems with vegetable oils is NOT going to be fixed with ANY filtering/centrifugation or thermal systems to raise the temperature of the fuel, it is the CHEMICAL NATURE of triglycerides, especially unsaturated/polyunsaturated oils since they react to metals, oxidizing and forming varnish. Thick, gooey varnish which sticks injector pintles, makes governors sluggish and attacking the mirror-polished surfaces of the injection system.

You may get away with it for a few years, then you will need 8 injectors, 8 lines, an injection pump. And your old ones? Trash. Had you used D2, it might have been rebuildable. But your use of vegetable oil turned it all into scrap steel.

 

[Keith_J]

Anyone heard of this?

Diesel Secret Energy - Alternative Biofuel Biodiesel

D.

Scam.

 

[azex]

That's what's great about the Internet.

Everyone knows everything...and guys with NO working experience know the most.

Been dealing with it in the gun world for a long, LONG time....and I've been a firearms manufacturer for 10 years, in the biz for 16.

I started using the term IKIA for "Internet Know-It-All".

That's the guy that'll tell you every half-truth, rumor, innuendo and personal opinion...but to him it's Fact, and irrefutable.

D.

 

[Keith_J]

I have worked on vehicles that have been abused by running vegetable oils. I don't claim to be an expert but I have researched the reasons it is a BAD idea.

The steels used in the IP and injectors is NOT a corrosion resistant alloy, it is chosen for strength and wear properties. Vegetable oils are triglyceride esters meaning they all have the same structure, a "backbone" of glycerol (a triol or triple alcohol) and three fatty acids. These fatty acids are carboxylic acids, like vinegar only they have 4-28 carbons where acetic acid (vinegar) has only 2 carbons.

 

[azex]

Wow, you are capable of a reply consisting of something other than your snide opinion.

Fantastic.

Once again, more AARs, less "I know, because I think it's this way", which IMO is just yapping.

D.

 

[Keith_J]

You might get 20-50k miles running SVO. Much less if WVO. Heating the oil makes it more reactive, waste oils are VERY REACTIVE. Linseed oil, a triglyceride, hardens much faster once thermally treated. The same for WVO.

All triglycerides react with metal, that is why they are good extreme pressure lubricants. This is fine for high wear areas like cam lobes but in the injectors, where clearances are in the sub micron range, it will be a problem.

If you want to run triglycerides, only the most primitive diesel engine like a Lister will last. And you will need frequent cleanings of the fuel system with powerful solvents like ethanolamine to remove the reaction products. Metals promote polymerization of fatty acids, this is one of the reasons for lead oxides as pigments in linseed-based oil paints.

You want to keep up your snide comments? I am posting the facts, not my opinions.

 

[4bogginchevys]

You might get 20-50k miles running SVO. Much less if WVO. Heating the oil makes it more reactive, waste oils are VERY REACTIVE. Linseed oil, a triglyceride, hardens much faster once thermally treated. The same for WVO.

All triglycerides react with metal, that is why they are good extreme pressure lubricants. This is fine for high wear areas like cam lobes but in the injectors, where clearances are in the sub micron range, it will be a problem.

If you want to run triglycerides, only the most primitive diesel engine like a Lister will last. And you will need frequent cleanings of the fuel system with powerful solvents like ethanolamine to remove the reaction products. Metals promote polymerization of fatty acids, this is one of the reasons for lead oxides as pigments in linseed-based oil paints.

You want to keep up your snide comments? I am posting the facts, not my opinions.

You've taken them longer than I would have, great explanation....I learned something today

 

[area52]

You can try researching for real over on:

biodiesel discussion forum

There is alot of good info there on WVO/SVO.

 

[Hal O'Peridol]

Wow, you are capable of a reply consisting of something other than your snide opinion.

Fantastic.

Once again, more AARs, less "I know, because I think it's this way", which IMO is just yapping.

D.

Hi Derek, you might wanna tone it down a bit. This ain't the FALFILES.

 

[XM 2742]

The university of Texas has used biodiesel for a few years........and every engine is gummed up ...........fact. The money saved on biodiesel is now being spent on rebuilds on EVERY diesel that UT has.

 

[Keith_J]

The university of Texas has used biodiesel for a few years........and every engine is gummed up ...........fact. The money saved on biodiesel is now being spent on rebuilds on EVERY diesel that UT has.

And that is commercial, ASTM spec biodiesel. Imagine waste vegetable oil.