Help - Water drained from rear oil pan plug

[pitpawten]

Pulled the front plug, nothing but black oil, then pulled the back drain plug that drains the little bump-out area on the rear part of the oil pan.

What appeared to be water, maybe 1/2 gallon came out FIRST and then nice black oil. Did not appear to be coolant from the smell, though there is a slight yellowish tint.

Truck has sat 3 years but did not have any running issues when parked. Any chance of:

1. Coolant leaking in while sitting somehow?
2. Exhaust stack filling and draining back through turbo into exhaust manifold and down into cylinders? (the bucket I had on top of the stack died after a year or so)?

 

[pitpawten]

Check that probably a quart or less of water wife says it's yellow in color did not have a coolant smell but a strong oil smell so hard to tell

 

[pitpawten]

Okay after some conversations with my brothers I think I've landed on it being coolant that has leaked down into the oil while sitting.

I don't believe it was mixing with the oil while previously running (ala the milkshake of doom) and then separated over time, because there was only clean coolant in the rear portion of the oil pan.

The game plan at this point with the engine empty of oil is:

1. Remove the injectors and inspect with a scope.
2. Wash the cylinders down with some diesel and then drain it out of the crankcase.
3. Refill crankcase with oil
4. Re-torque the heads
5. Spin it over with the injectors out
6. Put the injectors back in and run it keeping an eye for signs of coolant and oil mixing.

Open to suggestions or confirmation of steps.

 

[ToddJK]

If the truck sat for three years, I have no doubt that it's a strong possibility that is water from condensation. I don't think pulling the injectors is a bad idea, check the spray patterns and also make sure the cylinders are clear.

 

[87cr250r]

If it's not the same color as the coolant it's not coolant. Is your coolant faintly yellow or a brighter color?

It's quite possible for water to come in through the exhaust but it has to pass through a cylinder. It will have done some damage if it sat this long after passing water. Does the engine turn freely?

If it does turn freely do note that for every 1 lb of diesel burned more than 1 lb of water is produced. If you start and idle you're fine a lot without actually driving it and working it, a lot of water can condense in the crankcase when the oil isn't hot enough to evaporate it out.

 

[cattlerepairman]

While the finding of water is disconcerting, you were in fact super diligent and discovered that before running the engine for any extended length of time. That most certainly avoided further complications.

A headgasket failure where coolant enters the oil stream results in oil becoming suspended in water with the well known milky appearance. The clear separation indicates that the engine was not run like that. Is it possible that there is a coolant leak and coolant trickles into the oil, over time? Sure, but even if it does not mix with oil because the engine does not run it would still look and smell like coolant.

A lot of water can come in through an open exhaust stack. You may or may not see telltale rust along the intake pathway, depending on how well oiled everything was.
You are not talking about the engine being stuck, so corrosion inside the cylinder bore is not top of mind.

If it were me, in the absence of any other clear damage when inspecting the cylinders and valve train and looking for telltale headgasket failure indications, I would simply change the oil and filters and run the snot out of that engine.
I would then check for milkshake after a few hundred miles or a few weeks.

 

[pitpawten]

While the finding of water is disconcerting, you were in fact super diligent and discovered that before running the engine for any extended length of time. That most certainly avoided further complications.

A headgasket failure where coolant enters the oil stream results in oil becoming suspended in water with the well known milky appearance. The clear separation indicates that the engine was not run like that. Is it possible that there is a coolant leak and coolant trickles into the oil, over time? Sure, but even if it does not mix with oil because the engine does not run it would still look and smell like coolant.

A lot of water can come in through an open exhaust stack. You may or may not see telltale rust along the intake pathway, depending on how well oiled everything was.
You are not talking about the engine being stuck, so corrosion inside the cylinder bore is not top of mind.

If it were me, in the absence of any other clear damage when inspecting the cylinders and valve train and looking for telltale headgasket failure indications, I would simply change the oil and filters and run the snot out of that engine.
I would then check for milkshake after a few hundred miles or a few weeks.

Thank you for the encouraging words I've been mildly freaking out not necessarily about a head gasket because that's within my capabilities of doing but that I've set the target for the 4th of July and my seven and four-year-olds are super stoked

I've already got a replace the oil cooler cover which had some pin holes so that necessitates taking all the lines off anyway so while I'm there hopefully pulling the injectors won't be too much of a bigger deal looks just like the two bolts each.

I'm not sure however how to get the return lines off since there isn't any flexibility for the lines to move dramatically one way or the other I guess I just have to bend them and pull them out either that or take all of the injectors out at the same time without removing the return lines and keep it as one big assembly.

Anybody ever just disconnect the lines from the IP and the one end of the return line and pull the injectors and hoses out as one big assembly?

 

[cattlerepairman]

Oh, if the return lines are that hard, then they will also be brittle. Do yourself a favour and replace them with 1/4" DOT air line while you are at it. DOT line holds up to diesel just fine. The original lines are nylon/polyamide if you are a purist.
Super simple to do and it takes away the risk of one of them splitting at an inopportune moment. Make sure you have new ferrules and the "trumpet" style line inserts on hand; soldier B was often a bit lazy putting those into the lines and some ends may not have them!

On that note, I have always ended up with brass ferrules that are too wide. A second of holding the open ends against the bench grinder fixes that, just in case you run into the same issue. If the ferrules are too wide, the clamp nut won't grab the thread and you cannot tighten them.

 

[87cr250r]

Yes, on most diesel engines the injector lines can be removed as an assembly or assemblies. Even when servicing a single injector I'll remove all of the lines because it's so much easier than messing with those clamps.

 

[ToddJK]

Does that have a flame heater?

 

[cattlerepairman]

From the picture it appears that the fuel line and electrical connection for the flame heater are in place.

Does that have a flame heater?

 

[pitpawten]

Yes I believe it does, that's what the T junction is at the top of the return line rail that's on the injectors.

Anything I need to know about that with regards to the process I'm undertaking of pulling injectors to spin it over?

 

[ToddJK]

Yes I believe it does, that's what the T junction is at the top of the return line rail that's on the injectors.

Anything I need to know about that with regards to the process I'm undertaking of pulling injectors to spin it over?

No,that won't affect that process, but when you get the time, I'd recommend deleting it. It tends to leak and cause fires as it drips on the exhaust.

 

[pitpawten]

Thought i'd follow up here in this thread for future searches as well as since several chimed in to help:

First cleaned this area since some kind of oil leak somewhere has made the whole engine-side filthy.




Pulled the injector lines, wasn't quite as easy as "one assembly" but did manage to minimize how much I took apart.



Wound up taking the return lines off as well, think I may replace them since I now have to do other stuff.



The color of fuel leftover in the top of the IP that drained back out of the lines was varying degrees of disgusting, didnt want to get any debris in there so shot them out with some MAF cleaner (was all out of carb cleaner) before plugging





Bought some rubber stoppers from the hardware store to fill the ports on the IP and Injectors.







Borescope this afternoon to visually inspect cylinder IF its small enough to fit down the small injector port.

 

[pitpawten]

All right let's keep this train wreck going. Borescoped all the cylinders the last one I checked because the injector was stuck was number five two - full of coolant to the throat of the injector tube. Verified by sight and smell - all other cylinders are shiny and clean except for one poor bug who made his way into cylinder number three four somehow and now resides there as a crispy critter : )

Game plan is to assume a very slow coolant leak due to sitting and non-use and do the following:

1. Pull the valve covers and retorque the heads
2. Reconnect the oil cooler
3. Leave fuel shut off
4. Don't even bother filling it with coolant
5. Spin it over with the injectors out a couple times to expel the coolant
6. Button it all back up, fill with coolant etc
7. Run it and monitor closely

Two questions:

1. Can I just RTV the valve (rocker) covers back on (have no gasket as I didn't plan for this)
2. Any critical missing part in the above process?

 

[cattlerepairman]

You are better off re-using the rubber valve cover gaskets. They are re-usable by design, maybe clean gently and spray with rubber revival compound of your choice. The valve covers need not be ape tight; just enough for the thick rubber gasket to seal. I would stay away from RTV for the valve covers.

I second re-torquing the heads and hoping that the horse has not left the stable when you close that door (ie. that the head gasket is not missing a chunk, causing the leak).

Other than that, I like your plan.

 

[pitpawten]

@cattlerepairman thanks for the quick confirmation it's always helpful to know somebody else has got an ear out for you to be a sounding board

I'm with you on the reuse of the gasket both of mine are in excellent condition although smeared with RTV that I'll have to remove

I'm going to see if I can retorque using a crowfoot wrench to avoid having to pull the rocker arms off cuz I really don't feel like jumping into valve adjustment on top of everything else.

I found a little calculation online that helps to give adjusted torque numbers, will post results.

 

[87cr250r]

You can pull the rockers and reinstall without needing to adjust the valves. They'll go right back to the same position.

I wouldn't bother retorquing the heads. If it leaked coolant into a cylinder, it's fried.

But it probably isn't coolant you found. The water in the injection pump is concerning. It seems this truck went under water. Check your fuel tank for water before trying to start. If you don't have a bottom drain there are water indicating pastes you can put on a dipstick to check.

 

[pitpawten]

You can pull the rockers and reinstall without needing to adjust the valves. They'll go right back to the same position.

That's good to know I just figured I was likely to knock it out of adjustment, but torquing without removing them seems to have been army procedure given the shape of the tool they designed for it

I wouldn't bother retorquing the heads. If it leaked coolant into a cylinder, it's fried.

Hrm..., Not sure I'm with you there, I can see a scenario where after sitting for 3 years coolant is able to drain very slowly from the head in a way that either wouldn't be noticed or happened at all when the truck is run regularly

But it probably isn't coolant you found.

It's coolant all right when I pulled the borescope out after being submerged in it in the cylinder I smelled it and it was definitely coolant

The water in the injection pump is concerning.

I don't believe there is any water in the injection pump, I'm guessing your looking at the picture of the fuel that leaked back out of the injector lines, discolored but don't believe there was any water.

It seems this truck went under water. Check your fuel tank for water before trying to start.

Not since I've owned it (~6 years) and it ran well right up until the day I parked it.

 

[cattlerepairman]

Any news? Did you get it fired up?