HMMWV Replacement Starter - Direct or Gear Reduction?

[integr8r]

I recently picked up an auction HMMWV, sold with seized 6.2L engine. I was able to get the engine freed up and rotating with some Kroil and elbow grease, no problem there. I noticed when I removed the flywheel cover there was some buildup of material near the starter gear. This has the Leece-Neville direct drive starter. Flywheel teeth look ok.

I was able to get the unit to engage, but it sounded like the teeth were interfering and too tight. Almost had engine started, but but starter ran-on after I let the start switch off and began to ran away. It did that for 5 seconds, then stopped, but i could tell it it was still engaged (cooking down), so I quickly pulled battery cable off. I assume starter got hot, expanded and stator and armature had an unexpected meeting.

Taking starter apart, I see the stator coils are cooked and insulation is all melted down.

So two questions, first, should i replace that 70lb beast with another direct drive starter, or should i consider a gear reduction starter? I did this on a small block chevy once, and the newer style starter really seemed to run better, but does anyone any experience here with 24VDC starters on the 6.2L?

Second, I think the original cause of my issue was improper clearance setup between starter and flywheel, and maybe the starter run-on was caused by the starter gear staying engaged, which causes the solenoid to stick on. Is there a setup/shimming guide? I have heard some say no shimming is required, but that sounds like perfect world scenario to me.

Thanks

 

[Barrman]

I have never been able to get a direct drive Delco starter to fit with the HMMWV manifolds. I don't know the starter you are talking about.

Do you have the starter support bracket installed? If you change styles of starters, you have to change the support bracket. Nobody makes the direct drive version anymore. Don't even "just check to see if it works." Without the starter support bracket. I have a 6.2 and a 6.5 engine here in my class with my currently that are missing the outside of the block from the starter motor bolt hole. Both now useless.

 

[integr8r]

I have never been able to get a direct drive Delco starter to fit with the HMMWV manifolds. I don't know the starter you are talking about.

Do you have the starter support bracket installed? If you change styles of starters, you have to change the support bracket. Nobody makes the direct drive version anymore. Don't even "just check to see if it works." Without the starter support bracket. I have a 6.2 and a 6.5 engine here in my class with my currently that are missing the outside of the block from the starter motor bolt hole. Both now useless.

I think we have a terminology issue here. When i say direct drive, I mean the original starter that has a 1:1 ratio between starter motor and starter gear. It has the braked on the motor mount, and based on the weight of the starter i can see why. IMI makes a much lighter starter, which may need a bracket (different bracket), but I am hoping someone will tell me how it performs and how reliable it is.
Here is a link:
link removed to conform to site rules.
The nice thing is that the positive and negative terminals are in the same location as the original. But if this is a low quality foreign knockoff, then I don't that.

 

[Action]

Starter shims are shown in the parts manual.

 

[papakb]

I've never seen a really good explanation as to why you can't put a CUCV starter in a HMMWV. Half the weight.

 

[ken]

Won't the CUCV starter's solenoid hit the exhaust manifold/header?

 

[papakb]

Ken, I have no idea. The standard CUCV starter is about half the size and weight of the HMMWV starter and they're both GM 6.2 engines so the manifolds are the real difference in the lower area. Has anyone on the forum tried one? I'm sure there are lots of us who would like to know. That thing sure is a beast to change out and they seem to fail more often than they should. I've changed mine twice in 40K miles, most GM trucks will go 100K or more without problems. As fot the newer gear reduction starters I guess you'd have to put the 3 side by side and see how they match up.

 

[integr8r]

Ken, I have no idea. The standard CUCV starter is about half the size and weight of the HMMWV starter and they're both GM 6.2 engines so the manifolds are the real difference in the lower area. Has anyone on the forum tried one? I'm sure there are lots of us who would like to know. That thing sure is a beast to change out and they seem to fail more often than they should. I've changed mine twice in 40K miles, most GM trucks will go 100K or more without problems. As fot the newer gear reduction starters I guess you'd have to put the 3 side by side and see how they match up.

I looked into the CUCV starter. Mechanically it will fit fine, but the batter cable connections are located in a different spot which would make it difficult. And with the size of those cables, reworking and rerouting them wouldn't be an easy task. The wires that leave the starter and continue to the engine would have to get longer also, as the CUCV stater cable connections appear to be on top of the solenoid, whereas the HMMWV connectsion are down low on the bottom.