How do you make a LMTV NOT suck in the snow?

[TomTime]

Thanks Reworked LMTV for the heads up!

Here you go. I love this guy! He's funny, has some great ideas, and appears to know what he is doing!?

Thanks Chad for all that you have given back!


VIDEO:

CHAINS:

Amazon.com

 

[mzak88]

I concur. While we don't get these types of snows down in MD, we do get them. I drove my M925A2 through 34 inches or so of snow, and the truck did well. You knew it wasn't summer, but the truck pulled through it all. I was by myself, with no back up to help, so I was worried a bit. I did not have anyone who could have gotten another of my trucks and dragged a chain through the snow. Fortunately, it was not needed. The truck just pulled through the snow.

I also had an M917 that could not pull itself up a slight grade in about 2" of snow. But, that truck had street tires on it. I tried to pull it out with the M925A2 and I just ended up digging holes.

The type of snow has a lot to do with it. “Dry” snow from really cold climate (-20 Celsius) more manageable than 1” of sloppy wet snow. I run Quality chains up here in Kanadaria, hopefully we can fight the coming ban

 

[Third From Texas]

move to Florida...

*political restrictions may apply

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Chad (Broke Overland) seems to be doing just fine in the snow with a set of Z cables on the rear. Watch as he shows the Jeeps who's BOSS in the snow:

Clearly weight in the back is not a detriment at the least. If he can haul ~21,000 lbs plus pull a Jeep that's basically dead weight......

Edit - just realized this was already posted. LoL. But it's definitely worth the watch. I ordered the cables chains he recommended. Pretty inexpensive all things considered.

 

[spankybear]

More throttle?

I know that parking lot I know that truck and I know that driver...

 

[spankybear]

Chad (Broke Overland) seems to be doing just fine in the snow with a set of Z cables on the rear. Watch as he shows the Jeeps who's BOSS in the snow:

Clearly weight in the back is not a detriment at the least. If he can haul ~21,000 lbs plus pull a Jeep that's basically dead weight......

Edit - just realized this was already posted. LoL. But it's definitely worth the watch. I ordered the cables chains he recommended. Pretty inexpensive all things considered.

Been there done that. Plus there are parts on my truck there were on that on that truck

 

[spankybear]

move to Florida...

Do you really want someone from Washnington State who lives near Seattle to move there and become a Florida Man?

Guess you really want to change your state... Just look at our DU***AA governor... Might as well tell Californias to move there...

 

[spankybear]

It depends on what your definition of "in the snow is" . If you are talking about driving the truck on a warm paved road (road temperature around 32F) with a half inch of snow, then I agree, it is not good. You can lower the tire pressure or put chains on and slow way down. Most tires are not good under those conditions. I use Nokian Hakkapeliitta studded winter tires on all my cars and light trucks. They are by far the best I have found in winter conditions. Sadly, they do not make them in 395-85-20.

If you are talking about an unplowed road or driving off-road in deep snow then my experience has been the truck is amazing. I have driven in some very deep snow, up to 36" of old corn snow (like little ice balls similar to very loose beach sand), over snow banks and snow piles. I have pulled large whole trees through deep snow up a slight grade without the slightest problem. All of this done when the temperature was well below freezing. (as cold as -30F) When you get close to 32F you will begin to have traction problems as the snow will glaze to ice under your tires. That is when the chains would help a lot. I do use CTIS to lower the tire pressure to the OFF ROAD setting. I do not even own chains for the LMTV, but I do have the factory installed self recovery winch. I use the winch often, but not for self recovery yet.

If you add weight on the truck to improve traction I would start with a ton and put it right in the very back of the bed because the front axle carries most of the weight of the truck when empty.

If I have to drive on snowy plowed roads I would never choose to take my LMTV over any of my other vehicles with studded snow tires. If i have to drive off road or on unplowed roads I'll take the LMTV every time.

View attachment 854379

Last December, we had a surprise snow storm. It was a surprise because we were supposed to get a foot of snow in the predawn hours and ending in the early morning. A quick foot of snow. But they were wrong, the storm began and ended as it was predicted but we got 3 and a half feet! It was snowing 6 or 7 inches and hour for 5 hours! The photo was taken after the snow had settled down quite a bit. It was over the headlights before settling down. The ground was completely bare before this storm so you are looking at 1 snowfall in this photo. I was too busy moving snow and pulling stuck vehicles with my skid-steer to have time to take my truck out in this storm but I am sure it would have done just fine. It was a cold storm. The air temperature was below 20F.

Most of the time we get wet sloppy snow that is slicker than snot. Add hills and whoa boy! Youtube "Seattle drivers in snow"

This last week it has been unseasonably cold. Checking our high 30.7 °... loes down in the teens and lower 20s. I am warming her up as I type to see how it does this this dryer snow.

 

[BERZERKER888]

Do you really want someone from Washnington State who lives near Seattle to move there and become a Florida Man?

Guess you really want to change your state... Just look at our DU***AA governor... Might as well tell Californias to move there...

lol..I highly doubt LMTV owners are the typical west coast self loathing anti white white tree hugging liberals whose only means to defend thier family is with a spatula and a dildo !

 

[Awesomeness]

This thing is worse than a 1 ton pickup in the snow. How do you not make it suck? Not like tube sand is going to work. Unless maybe its the whole pallet.

I also have to ask with people with boxes on the back... Does the weight help?

What exactly are the problems you're having in the snow? My truck is a god in the snow... the deeper the better. It sucks on wet/icy roads, because it's a heavy truck driving on tires that are essentially rubber bricks with no siping, but that's not "driving in snow".

Colorado Blizzard Rescue: LMTV Pulls State Troopers, Trucks From Deep Snow

Colorado Blizzard Rescue: LMTV Pulls State Troopers, Trucks From Deep Snow

www.motortrend.com

 

[Reworked LMTV]

What exactly are the problems you're having in the snow? My truck is a god in the snow... the deeper the better. It sucks on wet/icy roads, because it's a heavy truck driving on tires that are essentially rubber bricks with no siping, but that's not "driving in snow".

Colorado Blizzard Rescue: LMTV Pulls State Troopers, Trucks From Deep Snow

Colorado Blizzard Rescue: LMTV Pulls State Troopers, Trucks From Deep Snow

www.motortrend.com

Hmmm wonder if anyone has siped some of these tires.

 

[Awesomeness]

Hmmm wonder if anyone has siped some of these tires.

There have been threads on it in here before, I believe.

That's all that "snow tires" for a car are... very soft rubber compound and a zillion siping cuts. You can't change the rubber compound of these, but you can sipe them if you want.

 

[spankybear]

What exactly are the problems you're having in the snow? My truck is a god in the snow... the deeper the better. It sucks on wet/icy roads, because it's a heavy truck driving on tires that are essentially rubber bricks with no siping, but that's not "driving in snow".

Colorado Blizzard Rescue: LMTV Pulls State Troopers, Trucks From Deep Snow

Colorado Blizzard Rescue: LMTV Pulls State Troopers, Trucks From Deep Snow

www.motortrend.com

Hills (mountains for anyone east of the Mississippi) and slick sloppy wet snow.

From my post above...
" Most of the time we get wet sloppy snow that is slicker than snot. Add hills and whoa boy! Youtube "Seattle drivers in snow" "

 

[Awesomeness]

Hills (mountains for anyone east of the Mississippi) and slick sloppy wet snow.

From my post above...
" Most of the time we get wet sloppy snow that is slicker than snot. Add hills and whoa boy! Youtube "Seattle drivers in snow" "

You pretty much answered your own question. Follow the logic here...

Wet/icy roads have less friction. Normally you stop the truck by creating friction at the brakes, assuming that the tires will stay stuck to the road, and thus aren't a factor. But when the driving surface is slick, the tires lose traction to the road long before the brakes can do their work, so you are no longer stopping the truck with brakes... you are doing it with the friction of the tires sliding over the road surface (and that friction can be nearly zero). Compared to a smaller vehicle, heavy vehicles like an FMTV have a lot more inertia to dissipate, so once you start sliding, you are going to slide a lot further.

Your primary solution is to increase the friction of the tires to the driving surface. That means softer rubber compound (not many choices of tires, though), siping, and chains. (Any other options? The Autosock is interesting, but basically "chains" too.)

Adding weight to the truck does two things, trying to increase the mass that the coefficient of friction is being multiplied by, and trying to change the weight distribution of the vehicle. That's a lot harder to do when the these trucks weigh 18k+ pounds to start with, instead of 4000lb. As you add weight, in the quantities necessary to effect an 18,000lb truck, you're adding a lot more mass that you have to stop with that poor tire-to-road friction (e.g. adding stopping distance).

Another conclusion of the above is that: always keep in mind that you will be better off the road than on it, in these slippery conditions. When I'm driving in the LMTV, way more than in my Jeep/etc, if anything starts to slip at all and I have an opportunity to drive off the side of the road, I'm going to take it. Putting a pair of tires off the shoulder (obviously assuming there is nothing there to hit) will have way more traction and control than on a smooth, paved, wet/ice surface. Similarly, don't drive in the tracks of other vehicles that are compacted/worn down to pavement, drive in the deep parts of the snow (which would clog the treads of smaller vehicles' tires and cause them problems, but not you).


Snowy & icy roads only offer <25% of the tire-to-road friction. You're not going to win that game with smooth rubber tread blocks the size of candy bars in contact with the road.

 

[TomTime]

You pretty much answered your own question. Follow the logic here...

Wet/icy roads have less friction. Normally you stop the truck by creating friction at the brakes, assuming that the tires will stay stuck to the road, and thus aren't a factor. But when the driving surface is slick, the tires lose traction to the road long before the brakes can do their work, so you are no longer stopping the truck with brakes... you are doing it with the friction of the tires sliding over the road surface (and that friction can be nearly zero). Compared to a smaller vehicle, heavy vehicles like an FMTV have a lot more inertia to dissipate, so once you start sliding, you are going to slide a lot further.

Your primary solution is to increase the friction of the tires to the driving surface. That means softer rubber compound (not many choices of tires, though), siping, and chains. (Any other options? The Autosock is interesting, but basically "chains" too.)

Adding weight to the truck does two things, trying to increase the mass that the coefficient of friction is being multiplied by, and trying to change the weight distribution of the vehicle. That's a lot harder to do when the these trucks weigh 18k+ pounds to start with, instead of 4000lb. As you add weight, in the quantities necessary to effect an 18,000lb truck, you're adding a lot more mass that you have to stop with that poor tire-to-road friction (e.g. adding stopping distance).

Another conclusion of the above is that: always keep in mind that you will be better off the road than on it, in these slippery conditions. When I'm driving in the LMTV, way more than in my Jeep/etc, if anything starts to slip at all and I have an opportunity to drive off the side of the road, I'm going to take it. Putting a pair of tires off the shoulder (obviously assuming there is nothing there to hit) will have way more traction and control than on a smooth, paved, wet/ice surface. Similarly, don't drive in the tracks of other vehicles that are compacted/worn down to pavement, drive in the deep parts of the snow (which would clog the treads of smaller vehicles' tires and cause them problems, but not you).

View attachment 854766
Snowy & icy roads only offer <25% of the tire-to-road friction. You're not going to win that game with smooth rubber tread blocks the size of candy bars in contact with the road.

Wow, very nicely written/said!

Engineer, Accident Reconstructionist, or just s smarty pants ?

Happy New Year!

 

[spankybear]

You pretty much answered your own question. Follow the logic here...

Wet/icy roads have less friction. Normally you stop the truck by creating friction at the brakes, assuming that the tires will stay stuck to the road, and thus aren't a factor. But when the driving surface is slick, the tires lose traction to the road long before the brakes can do their work, so you are no longer stopping the truck with brakes... you are doing it with the friction of the tires sliding over the road surface (and that friction can be nearly zero). Compared to a smaller vehicle, heavy vehicles like an FMTV have a lot more inertia to dissipate, so once you start sliding, you are going to slide a lot further.

Your primary solution is to increase the friction of the tires to the driving surface. That means softer rubber compound (not many choices of tires, though), siping, and chains. (Any other options? The Autosock is interesting, but basically "chains" too.)

Adding weight to the truck does two things, trying to increase the mass that the coefficient of friction is being multiplied by, and trying to change the weight distribution of the vehicle. That's a lot harder to do when the these trucks weigh 18k+ pounds to start with, instead of 4000lb. As you add weight, in the quantities necessary to effect an 18,000lb truck, you're adding a lot more mass that you have to stop with that poor tire-to-road friction (e.g. adding stopping distance).

Another conclusion of the above is that: always keep in mind that you will be better off the road than on it, in these slippery conditions. When I'm driving in the LMTV, way more than in my Jeep/etc, if anything starts to slip at all and I have an opportunity to drive off the side of the road, I'm going to take it. Putting a pair of tires off the shoulder (obviously assuming there is nothing there to hit) will have way more traction and control than on a smooth, paved, wet/ice surface. Similarly, don't drive in the tracks of other vehicles that are compacted/worn down to pavement, drive in the deep parts of the snow (which would clog the treads of smaller vehicles' tires and cause them problems, but not you).

View attachment 854766
Snowy & icy roads only offer <25% of the tire-to-road friction. You're not going to win that game with smooth rubber tread blocks the size of candy bars in contact with the road.

Having read this... All I will say if my LMTV has been the worst vehicle I have had in the snow we get here in the Northwest. Before that was my CUCV m1008 but it was manageable with a few "tube sand" tubes in the back. The best I have was the CUCV M1009 blazer, my Honda Element and my 2000 Chevy Sliverado with auto 4WD.

I believe the M1008 with the detrot locker made things worse. The M1009 and Sliverado has the Eaton Govlock and I feel this much better than a true locker. YMMV

 

[Reworked LMTV]

Start siping and bagging

Having read this... All I will say if my LMTV has been the worst vehicle I have had in the snow we get here in the Northwest. Before that was my CUCV m1008 but it was manageable with a few "tube sand" tubes in the back. The best I have was the CUCV M1009 blazer, my Honda Element and my 2000 Chevy Sliverado with auto 4WD.

I believe the M1008 with the detrot locker made things worse. The M1009 and Sliverado has the Eaton Govlock and I feel this much better than a true locker. YMMV

K then, start your groovn, sipen and bagging, and get on with it already

 

[Awesomeness]

Having read this... All I will say if my LMTV has been the worst vehicle I have had in the snow we get here in the Northwest. Before that was my CUCV m1008 but it was manageable with a few "tube sand" tubes in the back. The best I have was the CUCV M1009 blazer, my Honda Element and my 2000 Chevy Sliverado with auto 4WD.

I believe the M1008 with the detrot locker made things worse. The M1009 and Sliverado has the Eaton Govlock and I feel this much better than a true locker. YMMV

Lockers always make things worse on slippery roads. By locking the differential (which is doing the exact opposite of why they put a differential there in the first place, remember?), on low-traction surfaces, one wheel is ALWAYS slipping. So you're always breaking the one tire loose (per locked axle), and starting it slipping, leaving only one tire trying to hold traction.

This is why I gave the full explanation above. The truck does fine, if you understand what it's supposed to be doing. It sounds like your understanding, and expectations, are not aligned to what the truck is. If you could put big all-terrain tires on your LMTV, like your CUCV has, you'd be starting way better off (though you'd still be trying to stop 5x the mass).

There is no one design that suits all needs. If you put all terrain tires on it, with small lugs and tight siping, when you went into mud they would just turn into slicks and you'd get nowhere. If you put big meaty mud-lug tires on, and try to drive on hard, smooth, low-traction surfaces, you slide around like an ice rink, because the tread blocks in contact with the road are basically slicks. I had a K5 Blazer (like your CUCV), with 40" Super Swamper Boggers, and it had basically similar behavior on slick roads to the LMTV, but could paddle through deep mud/snow like a champ.

 

[Celticlady]

What exactly are the problems you're having in the snow? My truck is a god in the snow... the deeper the better. It sucks on wet/icy roads, because it's a heavy truck driving on tires that are essentially rubber bricks with no siping, but that's not "driving in snow".

Colorado Blizzard Rescue: LMTV Pulls State Troopers, Trucks From Deep Snow

Colorado Blizzard Rescue: LMTV Pulls State Troopers, Trucks From Deep Snow

www.motortrend.com

Well ..WOW ! My trucks snow capabilities have not risen to "god" status yet. How do I do that?

 

[Awesomeness]

Well ..WOW ! My trucks snow capabilities have not risen to "god" status yet. How do I do that?

You need to sacrifice more knuckle skin while wrenching on the truck. The LMTV gods favor that.