How much water is ok?

[stumps]

Stanadyne, etal are talking about the clumps of water that form the "particles" in the oil/fuel. You can think of it this way if you like, rain drops are rather large particles of water, but a mist or a fog, are very small particles. Water doesn't mix with oil, so the droplets stay as separate clumps in the oil/fuel.... with distinct sizes. The same thing happens to the water in diesel fuel, or Waste Motor Oil.

When I first saw water jets cutting steel, they were water only, and the water was streamed through a laser drilled hole in a diamond nozzle. The pressures were around 30K to 70Kpsi. The steel essentially was bead blasted by water molecules. Adding other abrasives to the water makes it possible to cut even harder materials, such as tungsten carbide and some ceramics. The downside to adding abrasives is the nozzle is worn out more quickly. Diamond/water abrasive slurry through a diamond nozzle is going to wear the diamond nozzle pretty quickly.

-Chuck

 

[paulfarber]

Without grit water will at best wear down a surface over a VERY long time. A pressure washer uses the un-compressibility of water to exert the force generated by the the pump.

A home pressure washer is 2000psi.... yet I can't cut much with it.

Otherwise hydraulic systems would eat themselves from the side. Filter the internal grit from wear and it lasts a long time.

ANYWAY...

So no one really knows? I mean hard evidence proof?

 

[stumps]

Paul,

Here are a couple of sites that discuss water and its abrasive qualities on the injector tip:

Why use diesel fuel additives?
Do diesel fuel additives really Work? How and Why ! - Truckinfo.net
Seven Steps To Clean Fuel - East Tennessee's Caterpillar Dealer
Extreme Fuel Extenders

There are more, but I think they show a trend. For best results, search the word "water" when you view the link.

As to water jets, we are not talking about a silly little pressure washer. If you want to see the 2000psi from a pressure washer, you will have to put the nozzle right up against whatever you are washing. You might be amazed what they will cut through if you do that. I have cut bricks in half.

The erosion caused by the abrasive nature of high pressure water is happening inside of the injector right when the needle starts to open the injector nozzle and the high pressure water particles start to rocket through the tiny little space.

Hard evidence/proof is pretty much impossible to put on the internet. There is always the issue of photoshop, and lying. The various technical journals from ASTM, SAE, and other fully trustworthy professional societies that do this very kind of testing are unavailable for free. If you want that kind of "hard" evidence, you are going to have to spend the money and find it yourself....

-Chuck

 

[paulfarber]

I had already read most of those links and when you read all of them none of them cite the same mechanical problem that water would cause. Some say microbes, others say lubrication issues etc. Seeing that none of the 'articles' really 'agree' I really don't give them much weight. If water really does blow off injection tips then wouldn't that be a commonly cited issue?

Also, WMO is NOT diesel. Different stuff in each. I know of no WMO that has issues with fungus. WMO is at its heart, a lubricant with additives. Diesel fuel is never meant to lubricate (it must have lubricants added ie sulfur) and maybe that is the key difference?

I will continue to get as much water as I can out.. but right now it seems that using WMO as a fuel and what amount of water the M35a2 will tolerate is a mystery.

 

[stumps]

I had already read most of those links and when you read all of them none of them cite the same mechanical problem that water would cause. Some say microbes, others say lubrication issues etc. Seeing that none of the 'articles' really 'agree' I really don't give them much weight. If water really does blow off injection tips then wouldn't that be a commonly cited issue?

Did you read any of the articles? Each cites water as being an abrasive to the injectors. I quote:

1st article:
"...This sounds good, but it could actually do more damage than good, because water at more that 4 microns in size is abrasive to a diesel injector tip..."
2nd article:
"...Suspended water in diesel fuel hurts combustion, lowers energy content, fouls injectors, wears out pumps, abrades injector tip needles..."
3rd article:
"...WATER. Water breaks down the protective film strength of fuel, leading to plunger scuffing and seizure failures. Low sulfur fuels have lower film strength and lower natural resistance to scuffing or seizure...."
4th article:
""Lubricity” means the lubricating value of fuel. Low sulfur fuel has less lubricity. Low sulfur fuel also absorbs water more readily, and water is abrasive."

If you read what I have written, you will see that I have never said that water blows off the injector tips. I do not believe that water/steam can do that.

As to sulfur: It has never been added to diesel fuel. Sulfur was always a natural component of crude oil, and has always been considered undesirable. Sulfur is the reason that diesel's need larger oil sumps, and more frequent oil changes. Sulfur is the reason diesel motor oil has special buffers to control acid. Sulfur is a major cause of pollution from otherwise clean running diesel engines. Ultra low sulfur diesel is a problem not because the sulfur is gone, but rather because the diesel oil loses some of its natural lubricity in the desulfurization process. Removing sulfur is an expensive process. That is why it was tolerated at the levels it has been traditionally tolerated.

-Chuck