How to fix Blowby

[fa35jsf]

I assumed you were running 240, my apologies for making you write it three times .

No problem. I assumed we had a miscommunication. It happens.


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[fa35jsf]

At 5,880w out of a 802 im sure a bit of smoke is normal. Your really at the top end of what that set can produce. Mine does 5,500w and thats it.

Where you getting alot of black chunks out of the exhaust? If not your set dosnt need to be ran way up in the range as its not wet stacked.

No chunks. However, after I shut it down and let it cool, I reached a finger into the horizontal exhaust pipe that I had just installed and there is a very thick layer of soot on the bottom. Almost like someone poured in black flour.


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[Ray70]

It sounds to me like you're machine is fine. Most 802's will smoke a little as you approach the 100% output range, some smoke more than others. If one cylinder was smoking and the other not you can sometimes clean it up a bit by adjusting the metering pumps, but in all honesty I don't think you need to bother.
The soot is probably only settling in the pipe ( rather than being carried away ) because of your exhaust modification.
Either way I don't think you need to mess around with your machine at all.

 

[fa35jsf]

It sounds to me like you're machine is fine. Most 802's will smoke a little as you approach the 100% output range, some smoke more than others. If one cylinder was smoking and the other not you can sometimes clean it up a bit by adjusting the metering pumps, but in all honesty I don't think you need to bother.
The soot is probably only settling in the pipe ( rather than being carried away ) because of your exhaust modification.
Either way I don't think you need to mess around with your machine at all.

Thanks. I’m not planning on it anymore. I was concerned by the amount of blowby but at this point it seems to be running strong.

I changed the oil and filter before the last run and then put 6 hrs on it at 80-100% load. Checking the oil it is much darker than it started out. I wasn’t expecting that after such a short time. I’m using Delco 15w-40 which starts out pretty clear like full synthetic. However the oil qty has not increased nor decreased. So maybe just the high power loads?

I’m going to load test it again in the next few days until I run out of fuel in the tank. I need to pull the tank and clean due to sticky goop inside. Also need to change the fuel filters. I figure I’ll have 12-15 hrs on the oil. Then I’ll take a sample and send it off to Blackstone Labs to have it analyzed so they can hopefully tel me if I have any excessive wear or fuel in the oil.

I’ll keep y’all updated. Thanks for all the help again!


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[Guyfang]

Thanks. I’m not planning on it anymore. I was concerned by the amount of blowby but at this point it seems to be running strong.

I changed the oil and filter before the last run and then put 6 hrs on it at 80-100% load. Checking the oil it is much darker than it started out. I wasn’t expecting that after such a short time. I’m using Delco 15w-40 which starts out pretty clear like full synthetic. However the oil qty has not increased nor decreased. So maybe just the high power loads?

I’m going to load test it again in the next few days until I run out of fuel in the tank. I need to pull the tank and clean due to sticky goop inside. Also need to change the fuel filters. I figure I’ll have 12-15 hrs on the oil. Then I’ll take a sample and send it off to Blackstone Labs to have it analyzed so they can hopefully tel me if I have any excessive wear or fuel in the oil.

Lets talk OAP. Oil Analyses Program. Which is what you are going to do when you send in your sample. While they should be able to tell you if you have fuel or coolant in the oil, they can not tell you if you have excessive wear. To do that, they have to have a history of oil samples. Normally, you change oil and filter, and then run it a few hours. Then you submit an Initial oil sample. It gives them a base line. Then, with every sample after that, they can tell you if your wear is increasing, AND even what is wearing. For example, a bearing, gear or rings, that sort of thing. But from an initial sample, its tough to say much. You have to be able to compare it to something. And if they tell you different, then you need to read up on it so you can talk OAP with them. We did this for many years in the Army. I helped set up the Lab in Bamberg. If you are running a fleet, (cars, trucks, power generation) and want to save big money, OAP is a great thing. But for what you want, a gen set to run every once in a spell, it might not be worth it. I don't know how much a sample cost to run, but when we did it, the cost would have been kinda hefty. And we ran 150-200 samples a month, for just our Company sized unit. Since it was a contracted deal, we didn't pay, but the Army sure did. And the boys can tell when you cheat, or make a mistake. A few stupid folks tried to just draw 150-200 samples from a drum of oil. Or a waste oil pod. Or 10-15 samples from the same truck. It didn't even work one time. They wound up getting punished, and not just a slap on the hand. The machine spots that in 0.0 seconds. The way the machine works is thus. Two big honking electrodes are placed almost into a small sample of your oil. Then A LARGE amount of DC Voltage is applied to the electrodes. The spark causes the small sample to be vaporized. The residue is analyzed. The lab should have to get the engine spec's to be able to tell you what bearing is failing, as each component has a different metallic makeup. Get smart about this before hand, if you haven't already. Then decide. I am not an expert, and things may have changed since I did this.

 

[fa35jsf]

Thanks. I’m not planning on it anymore. I was concerned by the amount of blowby but at this point it seems to be running strong.

I changed the oil and filter before the last run and then put 6 hrs on it at 80-100% load. Checking the oil it is much darker than it started out. I wasn’t expecting that after such a short time. I’m using Delco 15w-40 which starts out pretty clear like full synthetic. However the oil qty has not increased nor decreased. So maybe just the high power loads?

I’m going to load test it again in the next few days until I run out of fuel in the tank. I need to pull the tank and clean due to sticky goop inside. Also need to change the fuel filters. I figure I’ll have 12-15 hrs on the oil. Then I’ll take a sample and send it off to Blackstone Labs to have it analyzed so they can hopefully tel me if I have any excessive wear or fuel in the oil.

Lets talk OAP. Oil Analyses Program. Which is what you are going to do when you send in your sample. While they should be able to tell you if you have fuel or coolant in the oil, they can not tell you if you have excessive wear. To do that, they have to have a history of oil samples. Normally, you change oil and filter, and then run it a few hours. Then you submit an Initial oil sample. It gives them a base line. Then, with every sample after that, they can tell you if your wear is increasing, AND even what is wearing. For example, a bearing, gear or rings, that sort of thing. But from an initial sample, its tough to say much. You have to be able to compare it to something. And if they tell you different, then you need to read up on it so you can talk OAP with them. We did this for many years in the Army. I helped set up the Lab in Bamberg. If you are running a fleet, (cars, trucks, power generation) and want to save big money, OAP is a great thing. But for what you want, a gen set to run every once in a spell, it might not be worth it. I don't know how much a sample cost to run, but when we did it, the cost would have been kinda hefty. And we ran 150-200 samples a month, for just our Company sized unit. Since it was a contracted deal, we didn't pay, but the Army sure did. And the boys can tell when you cheat, or make a mistake. A few stupid folks tried to just draw 150-200 samples from a drum of oil. Or a waste oil pod. Or 10-15 samples from the same truck. It didn't even work one time. They wound up getting punished, and not just a slap on the hand. The machine spots that in 0.0 seconds. The way the machine works is thus. Two big honking electrodes are placed almost into a small sample of your oil. Then A LARGE amount of DC Voltage is applied to the electrodes. The spark causes the small sample to be vaporized. The residue is analyzed. The lab should have to get the engine spec's to be able to tell you what bearing is failing, as each component has a different metallic makeup. Get smart about this before hand, if you haven't already. Then decide. I am not an expert, and things may have changed since I did this.

Thanks for the input. I’ve used this lab for my 97 F350, two oil samples so far and a transmission sample. I’ve also sent in an oil sample for my wife’s car.

They are a bigger lab that has been in business for awhile. The report they send you back will base your sample compared to the average of other samples they have on file from the same engine/mileage/hours. Of course they will also show a trend on your actual engine if you have provided multiple samples. Another nice thing is the technician takes the time to actually write out the response paragraph that goes with your report and address any concerns you may have submitted to them.

Of course I agree with you about needing to submit multiple samples over a period of time to get an accurate analysis of your specific engine. And I don’t know how much actual data they have on the LPW engine in my machine. But the whole thing only cost $28 including shipping and the free container they give you, so it’s not too much of an expense.


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[fastbrass]

While doing your tests and talking about approx 26 amps per leg.. are you running the set in 240 and essentially getting 2 120v legs, each using the neutral?

Is this the correct way to pull 120v power from these? Or is it better to run it in 120v and pull all 50
amps from L3 and N?

 

[fa35jsf]

While doing your tests and talking about approx 26 amps per leg.. are you running the set in 240 and essentially getting 2 120v legs, each using the neutral?

Is this the correct way to pull 120v power from these? Or is it better to run it in 120v and pull all 50
amps from L3 and N?

Yes. 2 separate 120v legs each at 27A using the neutral. I have it set up this way because that is how it Hass to be set up in order to be connected into a house panel if you want to use all circuits on your house


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[fastbrass]

Are there any downsides to potentially unbalanced loads running this way? Let’s say house AC, most lights, and sump pump happened to be on one side of the house panel, and the other barely had any current or load going through it. Can that damage the genset?

Otherwise, not running as a backup in a home and wanting 120v only through L3 and N, can all 50 amps go through L3?

Yes. 2 separate 120v legs each at 27A using the neutral. I have it set up this way because that is how it Hass to be set up in order to be connected into a house panel if you want to use all circuits on your house


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[fa35jsf]

Are there any downsides to potentially unbalanced loads running this way? Let’s say house AC, most lights, and sump pump happened to be on one side of the house panel, and the other barely had any current or load going through it. Can that damage the genset?

Otherwise, not running as a backup in a home and wanting 120v only through L3 and N, can all 50 amps go through L3?

Yes, probably. However large loads, such as your AC and well pumps are considered 240V, meaning they require three wires, a red, black, and white plus most often the green ground. Therefore their loads will be equal on both legs


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[Zed254]

Depends on the service you are backing up or providing. I have a 30 amp camper: 120 volt.....1 leg. No 240 volt service required or existing. I plan to run my generator in single phase 120 volt mode. If you check the S8 on your MEP803 or MEP802 (see pic) you will see that you can run in single phase 240 volt mode (2 legs of 120volts each) or single phase 120 volt mode (1 leg of 120 volts). So if, like me, you are providing power to a camper (or building) that has an electrical box with only 120 volt service you should switch S8 to single phase 120 volt.

If I run my generator in 240 volt mode with my camper I will have a very unbalanced generator and that is a bad thing to have. Slight imbalance is no problem, but 1 leg providing all the power may cause problems with our machines.

If you are providing power to your home then you have single phase 240 volt and need to better balance the load.