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HP and Torque ???
- Thread starter Alan Morehead
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jasonjc
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Truning up the fuel a littel on the deuce does make a big improvment. Just bypasssing the FDC is a big help.
bgekky3
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The tractor pull guys get some good horsepower out of these engines. Most of their mods are too extreme for the street, but when mine blows up I am going to port the heads and run bigger pistons. I might try out a sheetmetal intake to isolate it from the water and put on an intercooler. I will be sure to post pics when I get started, but for now I just go slow.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?t=6731&highlight=hercules+478
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?t=6731&highlight=hercules+478
gimpyrobb
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Adam, that will have to happen AFTER he brings home the Gammagoat!
chicklin
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From what all I have read and having driven mine on and off road, I'd say you're wasting your time trying to beef up the stock motor. It just wasn't designed for that type of performance.
Someone queue up the hole-in-the-engine-block picture.
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The Multifuel in the deuce is just that, a Multifuel - it may burn Diesel, but it was not designed as a Diesel. The LDT-465 Multifuel was developed from the LD-465 Multifuel, which in turn was developed from the LDS-427 Multifuel, which in 1957 was developed from the Continental TD-427 Diesel engine, which in turn was derived from the even older Continental T-427 gasoline engine - and derived means shares the same block and crankshaft.
Which is why so many people who think themselves better engine builders than the engineers at Continental soon find themselves with ventilated blocks.
We have a 60 year old truck design with engine technology only a few years newer.
These trucks have done precisely what they were designed to do for soon to be 60 years....that is reliably move cargo through varied climactic conditions around the globe at a steady pace. By design intent, the first thing one runs out of is horsepower...getting stuck or slowing for a hill is a minor problem for the military. Having enough HP to blast over a hill at 60 in ideal conditions also means that you can twist out a U-joint or snap an axle under less than ideal conditions - and that is unacceptable to the military.
Saying a deuce is underpowered is as wrong as saying rail dragster is a great off-road vehicle. There is nothing wrong with either design, its that we are trying to make them do what they aren't designed to do.
Anyone contemplating speeding up a deuce (whether by turning up the fuel or swapping engines) should first use their wrenches to make sure that the 60-year old design single-circuit brake system is in top shape - cause the brake system too was designed to halt a relatively slow vehicle.
Best wishes,
David Doyle
Which is why so many people who think themselves better engine builders than the engineers at Continental soon find themselves with ventilated blocks.
We have a 60 year old truck design with engine technology only a few years newer.
These trucks have done precisely what they were designed to do for soon to be 60 years....that is reliably move cargo through varied climactic conditions around the globe at a steady pace. By design intent, the first thing one runs out of is horsepower...getting stuck or slowing for a hill is a minor problem for the military. Having enough HP to blast over a hill at 60 in ideal conditions also means that you can twist out a U-joint or snap an axle under less than ideal conditions - and that is unacceptable to the military.
Saying a deuce is underpowered is as wrong as saying rail dragster is a great off-road vehicle. There is nothing wrong with either design, its that we are trying to make them do what they aren't designed to do.
Anyone contemplating speeding up a deuce (whether by turning up the fuel or swapping engines) should first use their wrenches to make sure that the 60-year old design single-circuit brake system is in top shape - cause the brake system too was designed to halt a relatively slow vehicle.
Best wishes,
David Doyle
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kaiser m35
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hello agen just have to ask a qestion.
here in norway we have 2 types of deuces
one type is the m6 this has non turbo engine 6 single weels air locker on all tre axels.this puts out 140hp.
and then you have the m35 multifuel whit turbo 10weels it dont have any air lockers on the axels. this puts out 210hp this its wath the norwegein army specks says...
is this youst bs???
what are your tougts???
cheers
here in norway we have 2 types of deuces
one type is the m6 this has non turbo engine 6 single weels air locker on all tre axels.this puts out 140hp.
and then you have the m35 multifuel whit turbo 10weels it dont have any air lockers on the axels. this puts out 210hp this its wath the norwegein army specks says...
is this youst bs???
what are your tougts???
cheers
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Sounds like you have a 5-ton LDS motor in a 2.5 ton deuce.
I've got the fuel turned up on my truck, runs about 1100 on the pyro(pre-turbo) on a long hill. Makes a big difference. That's not much, I fiddled with it at 1400 just to play, and the deuce HAULED. Turned it back down before I blew the motor, felt like 300hp. With 11-20 tires, I run 2500 rpm, 58 mph, up any hill empty. Still slow down with any kind of load.
Dennis
I've got the fuel turned up on my truck, runs about 1100 on the pyro(pre-turbo) on a long hill. Makes a big difference. That's not much, I fiddled with it at 1400 just to play, and the deuce HAULED. Turned it back down before I blew the motor, felt like 300hp. With 11-20 tires, I run 2500 rpm, 58 mph, up any hill empty. Still slow down with any kind of load.
Dennis
DavidWymore
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My Dodge will peg the pyro at 1600 when you romp on it. Conventional diesel pickup hotrodding wisdom says it's OK for short distances, you keep it cool by keeping your foot out of it on long pulls.
Alan Morehead
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OK, I got to look at the M35 good today. Remember, I just drove it home..... It has a Hercules Multifuel rated at 135 hp. It was new in 1991. It has 7000 miles on it. I would like to turn the fuel up a little, nothing major. I appreciate all the good feedback. I drove the truck to the store today just to buy a pepsi. Man, I love the looks you get..........
Alan Morehead
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Talk to me. I need the info. I have 9.00-20's.
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I would suggest a pyro installed before you crank up the fuel. You can without, but will have no idea how close you are to burning up the motor.
Here is the thread to turn up the fuel. Unfortunately, it is missing the images, maybe cranetruck can get them back on.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?t=1118
Just search pyro, pleny of threads on installing them
Dennis
Here is the thread to turn up the fuel. Unfortunately, it is missing the images, maybe cranetruck can get them back on.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?t=1118
Just search pyro, pleny of threads on installing them
Dennis
randyscycle
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Mr Doyle, As always, thank you for your sensible and honest input. It is much appreciated and I feel very accurate, in regards to the subject at hand.
That said, I think another example of diesels being used within their capacity can be witnessed on any mountainous stretch of interstate. Notice that no tractor-trailer screams over any major mountain at full throttle either loaded or unloaded. Why? Two reasons: first, it will kill the truck fast. Second, you need to stop upon cresting the summit of a very steep hill.
Hotrodding in my experience with virtually any vehicle is fun, but longevity isn't a factor.
That said, I think another example of diesels being used within their capacity can be witnessed on any mountainous stretch of interstate. Notice that no tractor-trailer screams over any major mountain at full throttle either loaded or unloaded. Why? Two reasons: first, it will kill the truck fast. Second, you need to stop upon cresting the summit of a very steep hill.
Hotrodding in my experience with virtually any vehicle is fun, but longevity isn't a factor.
DavidWymore
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doghead, I don't own a deuce. I think a Cummins Dodge more closely relates to one that a small car though. Are you always so, um, abrasive?
randysycle, 18wheelers used to get hotrodded a lot until the EPA, etc. started breathing down people's necks for smoke....and we're not talking 18wheelers pulling a jillion pounds of freight. An unloaded deuce is probably good for a bit of responsible hotrodding.
When you hotrod something, you take it beyond factory settings. Main concerns are how much heat your components (turbo, etc.) can take for how long, how much boost your headgaskets, etc. can take, and how much increased strain your internal components (crank, rods, pistons etc.) can take. Most of these things are hard to determine limits for without destructive testing or without talking to the engineers who designed/built the engines.
Now, just for example my (Dodge) truck's stock hp is around 200 and tq maybe 400. It's bumped up to make twice that. Modded pump, bigger injectors, bigger turbo, bigger intake, bigger exhaust. Added fuel =more heat, more smoke. More air combats heat, hence the bigger in/out and bigger turbo I don't know how a deuce's air filter is, from what I understand, they don't have a muffler, which is good. I CANNOT run the truck hard for very long, or with a load on it, or it WILL go poof. When you have a load on it, you end up going as fast as you would if it was stock and you had it floored because you're keeping your foot out of it to avoid blowing something up. Frustrating, but you get used to it, and it's fun for occasional romping around unloaded on pavement or dunes/mud.
Now a deuce, I'm a little in the dark, but here's my guesstimations. I'd bet the military has the engines limited coservatively 'cuz you never know when some bonehead is gonna get it stuck, overload it, and floor it all day trying to do whatever it it he's trying to do. The mil limited them to make it harder to break the engine, and the components downstream in the powertrain from them. With a little more brains, you can probably bump the power up and drive responsibly without issue. You may break something or decrease longevity, but most MV guys aren't hauling around fully loaded or using their deuce as often as the mil did.
The things that bother me about modding a deuce are it's weight (my truck weighs 7k), it's age and the unknown factors about the design parameters of the engine. This is all just guesses in the dark until someone who really know diesels/deuce engines comes along.
randysycle, 18wheelers used to get hotrodded a lot until the EPA, etc. started breathing down people's necks for smoke....and we're not talking 18wheelers pulling a jillion pounds of freight. An unloaded deuce is probably good for a bit of responsible hotrodding.
When you hotrod something, you take it beyond factory settings. Main concerns are how much heat your components (turbo, etc.) can take for how long, how much boost your headgaskets, etc. can take, and how much increased strain your internal components (crank, rods, pistons etc.) can take. Most of these things are hard to determine limits for without destructive testing or without talking to the engineers who designed/built the engines.
Now, just for example my (Dodge) truck's stock hp is around 200 and tq maybe 400. It's bumped up to make twice that. Modded pump, bigger injectors, bigger turbo, bigger intake, bigger exhaust. Added fuel =more heat, more smoke. More air combats heat, hence the bigger in/out and bigger turbo I don't know how a deuce's air filter is, from what I understand, they don't have a muffler, which is good. I CANNOT run the truck hard for very long, or with a load on it, or it WILL go poof. When you have a load on it, you end up going as fast as you would if it was stock and you had it floored because you're keeping your foot out of it to avoid blowing something up. Frustrating, but you get used to it, and it's fun for occasional romping around unloaded on pavement or dunes/mud.
Now a deuce, I'm a little in the dark, but here's my guesstimations. I'd bet the military has the engines limited coservatively 'cuz you never know when some bonehead is gonna get it stuck, overload it, and floor it all day trying to do whatever it it he's trying to do. The mil limited them to make it harder to break the engine, and the components downstream in the powertrain from them. With a little more brains, you can probably bump the power up and drive responsibly without issue. You may break something or decrease longevity, but most MV guys aren't hauling around fully loaded or using their deuce as often as the mil did.
The things that bother me about modding a deuce are it's weight (my truck weighs 7k), it's age and the unknown factors about the design parameters of the engine. This is all just guesses in the dark until someone who really know diesels/deuce engines comes along.
Alan Morehead
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Thanks, been reading for hours. I think I will take a good look tomorrow and get familiar with this FDC.
Alan Morehead
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I appreciate all the information. I guess I should have worded my questions a little better. I know a lot about engines and the workings of vehicles. I know how to be responsible to not damage an engine. The reason I turned my Chevy back down to 420-430 hp is I pull a 15,000 # trailer and it would have torn my truck up to leave it at 600 hp. I will not be towing anything with my M35. It is for parades and driving around. I have work trucks. I will be turning the FDC up until I see a little smoke while pumping the throttle but not smoking while driving. I know about EGT and pyro's and such. I just did not know how to turn the fuel up. Thanks so much for your help guys.
DavidWymore
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I kinda figured you knew a thing or two and were just looking for specific info for the deuce engine. Sorry I can't provide it.
Mostly wanted to argue against the "Don't touch it, it will explode as soon as you touch the throttle!" mentality.
Hammer
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Actually, it is easy enough to get over 1200° EGT just driving on flat to slightly inclined roads if you have the pump turned up.
The fact that there is 13k lbs empty, 3 axles, 10 tires, gear sets, etc, and teh shear amount of drag the vehicle puts on the motor will keep you from getting too much power out of the stock deuce by just turning the pump up some.
Changing injectors, pumps, turbos, headgaskets, intake, exhaust, etc. and you should be able to get a rough 200 ish hp that would be somewhat reliable if you don't tow anything, or use it too hard. That is more of a guess based on the LDS motors, and a good amount of diesel modification knowledge.
Still, by the time you have spent that amount of money, time, and broken parts, you could easily slap a Cummins motor and transmission in it and be happily driving around with a reliable 300-400 hp.
The fact that there is 13k lbs empty, 3 axles, 10 tires, gear sets, etc, and teh shear amount of drag the vehicle puts on the motor will keep you from getting too much power out of the stock deuce by just turning the pump up some.
Changing injectors, pumps, turbos, headgaskets, intake, exhaust, etc. and you should be able to get a rough 200 ish hp that would be somewhat reliable if you don't tow anything, or use it too hard. That is more of a guess based on the LDS motors, and a good amount of diesel modification knowledge.
Still, by the time you have spent that amount of money, time, and broken parts, you could easily slap a Cummins motor and transmission in it and be happily driving around with a reliable 300-400 hp.