Hydraulic vs. pto Winches

[Csm Davis]

Okay I have been lusting over m-936 trucks for awhile, then got to use and work on some and I am not impressed with the winches front and rear at all compared to my M-816. Some of you will say I overload my pto winches but I quit that some time ago (exploding winches are not fun) but I do expect them to live up to their rated power well low and behold they derated the winches on a M-936, what gives?

 

[KsM715]

Winch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wench - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[m16ty]

Hyd is much,much more user friendly over a PTO. You can make them pull more by raising the psi on the pump but just like the PTO winches, you go too much and you'll break things.

 

[Csm Davis]

Believe the bypass valves would be what would need to be adjusted on the m-936 but how would a regular mechanic know how much adjustment to do without lots of trial and error and exspencive parts. Have generally thought that a hydraulic setup could keep up with a pto or at least close but why would they down grade the 45,000 lbs rear winches to roughly 25,000?

 

[SCSG-G4]

Maybe they have learned something about the people using them. IE, the users figure there is a 50 percent under-rated factor and they have been trying 65-70,000 pound pulls which ate the winch. By rating it at 25,000, soldier A only tries to use it as a 45,000 pound winch.

 

[Derrickl112]

I think the rating also depends on how much cable is on the spool? With one layer of cable on the spool you have the most pulling power, then as you add layers you lose pulling power?

 

[BKubu]

I think the rating also depends on how much cable is on the spool? With one layer of cable on the spool you have the most pulling power, then as you add layers you lose pulling power?

Derrick, I think you have it reversed.

 

[deuceaid]

Derrick, I think you have it reversed.

nope, the first wrap pulls the hardest

 

[Kohburn]

the first wrap (least tanjential distance from rotating axis) will have the most strength and slowest speed. as the layers of wrap increase the line feed rate increases and your pull strength is reduced.

 

[BKubu]

Thanks for clarifying. I must have read the data plate wrong and had it backwards. You learn something new every day.

 

[Csm Davis]

Maybe they have learned something about the people using them. IE, the users figure there is a 50 percent under-rated factor and they have been trying 65-70,000 pound pulls which ate the winch. By rating it at 25,000, soldier A only tries to use it as a 45,000 pound winch.

That's a good reason to bring the rating down but on the hydraulic winches why bring the actual power down to half of the rating of the winch.

 

[derby]

Was this a one time thing you noticed on somebodys truck? I am just womdering if there were problems with that unit.
I have a rear hydraulic and front pto winch on my M812. I use the hydraulic 99% of the time. To me, using it by myself it is safer and more precise. I have used the pto winch two times, once when i was stuck and once to reel on the wire rope.

 

[Csm Davis]

Have only tried one but I have worked enough different winches to gage roughly how much pull I am getting. I also know how how much the trucks I pull weighs, so I believe it was bypassing at the listed rates on the plates.

 

[Csm Davis]

Something new, just noticed not all 936's have the rear winches rated the same treessw truck is rated 25000 and 45000 with snatch block. Why the difference?

 

[spicergear]

A snatch block in the line amplifies the strength of the winch, slows the line speed, and doubles the line where load is. Most of the time they're considered to double the power of the winch. 25,000lbs to 45,000lbs is just about that.

 

[45FMJoe]

Something new, just noticed not all 936's have the rear winches rated the same treessw truck is rated 25000 and 45000 with snatch block. Why the difference?

What spicergear said. Snatch blocks should be in all trucks with winches because you never know when whipping it out might help - or make the difference in going home that day.

 

[Jakelc15]

what spicergear said. Snatch blocks should be in all trucks with winches because you never know when whipping it out might help - or make the difference in going home that day.

Words to live by! Lol

 

[spicergear]

Another use for a snatch block is to steer to the line though places. Like I use that when dragging logs, there's usually not a straight path so I'll hang a snatch block off a tree truck to steer it around something then up to the truck. They're just handy to have. I have 2 of the large ones you typically find surplus, not the monsters, and would absolutely like to have at LEAST one more, possibly two.

 

[Csm Davis]

Okay soon as I posted that I knew that nobody would catch that I was talking about two different ratings on two of the same trucks, I use these everyday and understand snatch blocks. Okay to clear up this thread I am looking at two M 936's on one it says 14,500 single line, 22,500 with single sheave, and 27,500 with double sheave. Now on other truck it says 25,000 with single rope and 45,000 with snatch block, no single or double block specified. What gives?

 

[73m819]

Think the first is wrong if both winches are the same, heard that the 936 drag winch was DOWN rated on the 45000# to 25000# because of the hyd. needed to get 45000# for a single line pull, could get enough hyds for 25000# with the existing pump, but needed to change pumps to get 45000#