I let the magic smoke out!

[Deuce_of_Spades]

Heres the story...

Yesterday I got in the deuce, flipped the switch, put her in neutral and started her up. Instentanious start as usual! I backed her up to the garage and shut her off while I off loaded a score of UMO into my tote tank. About 30 mins later I got in the truck, did my normal starting procedure and got a slight hum from somewhere and nothing else.

Hmmmmm, I thought, that was weird. So I redid my procedure, switched her off then back on, put her in and then out of gear again, pushed the clutch and this time watched the dash board. As I pushed the start button I saw the generator gage dip all the way down to nothing and then came right back up after I released the button. Again I got nothing but a hum and the dreaded "Magic Blue Smoke" started wafting into the air from behind the dash around the starting button.

Now I'm not any good with a lot of this stuff but I do know that everything runs on Magic Blue Smoke and if you let it out it never works again!!! So why did my deuce not start,is my generator supposed to dip way down and how do I get the smoke back into my starter? It is now taking up my whole driveway to include the wifes spot! She is definately not happy about that one!

All sugestions needed!!!

HELP!

 

[CCATLETT1984]

While i have not had to deal with this kind of issue on my deuce yet, one of several things happend. Being that your voltage guage dropped and no cranking happened, I'd guess that your starter stuck. Give it a few gentle taps with a hammer, then give it a try again. (that should free it if its stuck)

You could always pull start it 2nd gear and pop the clutch

 

[davidkroberts]

well if your smoke is coming from behind the dash when you pushed the button it would seem you would have an electrical short in the starter button/ wiring harness somewhere. Look behind the dash and see if there is any bare wires where they rub together or touch the chassis where its metal. Being that its only doing it when you push the button it should be on the side that runs to the starter. Also check your ground wire just to be safe. It wouldnt explain the smoke but it probably needs to be checked anyway. If you find the short wrap it in electrical tape and move the wire somewhere where it wont burn through again.

Most likely it sounds like a starter issue as stated in the above post but im just throwing things out there. Ive never had a starter smoke on me like that but im pretty new to the hobby.

 

[cranetruck]

I agree with Dave.
Off hand, I'd say that your starting system is still okay, the starter relay probably never even energized. Look for a short behind the dash, check wire #27, which also goes to the batt/gen gauge.

 

[neilhendrix]

Deuce you have 3 very good ideas here from CC,Dave and Bjorn, I`ve read alot of their stuff and I think I would follow their leads. The only thing I can add is I`d find me a sky crane and move it out of your wifes spot. Good luck . I`ll be watching I may have the same problem.

 

[HeadWizard]

FWIW

NAPA p/n 7734-40, Majik Blu Schmoke

for after you find the problem.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Here's another thought. Some deuces have a magnetic relay on the side of the block above the starter. I've heard of folks bypassing this. In the event it was bypassed, I wonder what kind of current is getting fed through the start button?

 

[Chow717]

I had the same thing happen to me on my Allis Chalmers HD6G (24v). Turned out to be a shorted wire running to the starter. Lots of blue smoke from behind the dash area. Little rubberized electrical tape and all is well for now.

 

[jimmcld]

One more thing: If you pull start it, I found out recently that third gear works better, especially if your in gravel.

 

[desertfox]

Now that we are on this subject. My truck failed to start on several occasions. Asso. switch worked fine but when pushing the starter button-nothing. I jumped across the starter solinoid with my starter button set-up and started right up. Any one had problems with the remote solinoid on the side of the block??

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Re: RE: I let the magic smoke out!

While i have not had to deal with this kind of issue on my deuce yet, one of several things happend. Being that your voltage guage dropped and no cranking happened, I'd guess that your starter stuck. Give it a few gentle taps with a hammer, then give it a try again. (that should free it if its stuck)

You could always pull start it 2nd gear and pop the clutch

Pull-starting is so hard on the tranny... Besides it sounds like an electrical issue in the dash, check the starter button for signs of burning perhaps it arced across the poles and burnt out?

 

[desertfox]

RE: Re: RE: I let the magic smoke out!

Replaced with a new starter push button with out success. Which tells me the problem lies elsewhere? I am also getting power thru the push button stitch. Old and new. I do not like pulling unless absoluely necessary. That is why I use my jumper button to jump across the starter to starter solinoid.. Much easier and safer. And only take one person.
Thanks

 

[Deuce_of_Spades]

RE: Re: RE: I let the magic smoke out!

does napa have new start buttons? Sinse the smoke came out at the dash you think the starter itself is ok? curent never even made it that far? Is there a fuse somewhere between the button and the starter itself?

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Re: RE: Re: RE: I let the magic smoke out!

does napa have new start buttons? Sinse the smoke came out at the dash you think the starter itself is ok? curent never even made it that far? Is there a fuse somewhere between the button and the starter itself?

The button isn't that special, all it needs to do is handle 24v and what 60amps. just look for a push button switch that has those capabilities.

 

[bottleworks]

Re: RE: Re: RE: I let the magic smoke out!

The button isn't that special, all it needs to do is handle 24v and what 60amps. just look for a push button switch that has those capabilities.

No, the push button start switch does not have a 60 Amp load on it. Saturn Surplus carries a replacement switch. NSN 5930-00-133-9629

If the solenoid mounted on the side of the engine ever fails, get a standard 24V solenoid. They are cheap. You don't want to bypass it and wire the starter switch directly to the starter's solenoid.

 

[cranetruck]

Re: RE: Re: RE: I let the magic smoke out!

The button isn't that special, all it needs to do is handle 24v and what 60amps. just look for a push button switch that has those capabilities.

You'd be hard pressed to find a push button switch with a 60 amp rating.
You would also have to replace the wiring with at least an 8 gauge type.
The starter solenoid may "only" need 35 amps or so, but the spec allows up to 80 amps, that's why you need a relay to handle the current for it. The starter relay is usually rated 50 amps for the multifuel engine starter motors.

 

[davidkroberts]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: I let the magic smoke out!

hmmmm....... has anyone thought to check if the current is getting to the starter. If not you know the problem is somewhere in the wiring or relay somewhere..... i hate electrical problems

 

[Tanner]

Wiring Re-Smoke Kits

You may wish to learn more about the history of wiring smoke:

ELECTRICAL THEORY OF SMOKE...BY JOSEPH LUCAS
Positive ground depends upon proper circuit functioning, the transmission of negative ions by retention of the visible spectral manifestation known as "smoke". Smoke is the thing that makes electrical circuits work; we know this to be true because every time one lets the smoke out of the electrical system, it stops working. This can be verified repeatedly through empirical testing.

When, for example, the smoke escapes from an electrical component (i.e., say, a Lucas voltage regulator), it will be observed that the component stops working. The function of the wire harness is to carry the smoke from one device to another; when the wire harness "springs a leak", and lets all the smoke out of the system, nothing works afterwards. Starter motors were frowned upon in British Automobiles for some time, largely because they consume large quantities of smoke, requiring very large wires.

It has been noted that Lucas components are possibly more prone to electrical leakage than Bosch or generic Japanese electrics. Experts point out that this is because Lucas is British and all things British leak. British engines leak oil, shock absorbers, hydraulic forks and disk brakes leak fluid, British tires leak air and the British defense establishment leaks secrets...so, naturally, British electronics leak smoke.

Author Unknown


Those of us who have massed with any British cars are well-aware of the issues when you release the smoke from the harness.

FORTUNATELY, those wizard engineers at British-Leyland decided many years ago to develop a Harness Re-Smoke kit, for just the situation you describe! And the smoke included is fresh and unreleased, not the inferior recycled & filtered smoke that some lesser competitors offer in off-shore knock-off kits! Fresh!

This handy-dandy kit will also restore your Deuce's intermittent windshield wiper, the self-dimming lighting system, and the colorful turn signal spark generator -

For a Deuce, you will probably only need 1 to 2 kits to get all the smoke back in... as an added bonus, the Re-Smoke Kit will also replenish the OEM smells of burning plastic and bakelite...

The (on) crack team of engineers are currently hard at work on the nasty issue of ozone leaking from your generator while it is in operation... They have, through the ingenious marriage of an Ionic air purifier and a breast milk pump, devised a way to recharge the ozone that you can smell leaking from the generator - My oh my, what WILL they think of next?

"Tanner"

 

[m-35tom]

RE: Wiring Re-Smoke Kits

are we talking about the same joseph lucas who invented darkness??
and why is it that british switches close with very light contact pressure? is this so the 'smoke' is not harmed?

 

[nattieleather]

RE: Wiring Re-Smoke Kits

I hate to say this but RTFM! (Read the Field Manual) the -20 will have a trouble shooting section that will walk you through step by step the starter system and what and where to look for trouble. It will also give you ways to test the different componets so that your not replacing willy nilly.