I need some help

[doops22]

Hi guys, my father recently bought a 1968 kaiser jeep. The model number he gave me is Tm 9-2320-211-10. It is a tractor trailer type truck, with a 5th wheel. It has a transfer case and AWD. He is using it in the woods on logging jobs to move the chipper and trailers. The trouble is sometimes the truck will drive off the rear and front wheels, like the transfer is locked in. But sometimes, the truck will only spin one or two rear wheels. Yesterday the driver was going up an icy/snowy hill and ended up going back down over the hill backwards because only one rear tire was spinning. How does the transfer case on this truck work? We've noticed an air line going to it. How can we keep it locked in? Thanks for any info

 

[Victor]

Did you use your truck to go up on Sunday River to save $$ for tickets? Just kidding...

Could you please describe what do you mean:
"truck will drive off the rear and front wheels, like the transfer is locked in"
Sorry, but it does not explain any thing. I know how truck can drive "off the road" but not "off the wheels".
"only one rear tire was spinning" You have on the back 4 double tires. Right? And only 1 out of 4 was spinning? Some think not right. Please more explanation.

I am actually planing to be in your area next week. If you want - can take a look.
PM or email.

 

[doops22]

Sorry, guess I worded that wrong. I mean the truck sometimes puts power to both front & rear wheels, and sometimes it's like there is no power to the front wheels. Like a rear wheel drive truck in 2 wheel drive.

Yes, there are 4 dual tires in the back. I'm not sure if he meant only 1 out of 4 was spinning, or only 1 of the 2 axles was spinning.

How can we keep the transfer case "locked", to be in AWD all the time.

 

[nk14zp]

Sounds like a sprag going bad

 

[ida34]

What you have is a sprag transfer case. When there is a difference between the front and rear wheels it locks both in. There is a certain percentage of slip that it will allow without engaging both the front and rears. There are two sprags. One for going in reverse and one for going forward. The deuce has mechanical linkage from the trans to tell the transfer case when to engage the front or rear sprag. On the five tons this is done by the an air valve on the transmission shift mechanism. You should hear a thunk when going into and out of reverse. The valve at the transmission and the air piston in the transfer case sometimes bind up and need to be cleaned.

This may be your problem if the correct sprag is not engaged in the transfer case then it will not go all wheel drive. If this is not the problem then your transfer case is damaged internally. Check the -20 and -30 troubleshooting sections to troubleshoot further.

One of the problems with sprag cases is that it does not kick in to AWD until the front or the rear is starting to spin. Some deuces have an air lock transfer case and these you can lock in. The only input to the sprag case is to tell it your going forward or backward.

If the sprag selecting system is not the problems they you may have a problem internally in the transfer with the sprags. Memphis Equipment had REB kits that are designed to take the sprags out of the equation and convert the transfer case to manual front axle engagement. This would work for what you want to keep the ability to lock but you may have something wrong in the transfer case that would not be replaced with the REB kit. I am pretty sure the sprags are replaced when the REB kit is installed and I would think the problem you describe is a sprag problem so it might fix it.

Here is a link to a thread on the REB.

 

[Victor]

Before you buying any think $$$ go and check simple solutions:
Air comes with out leak(s)
Air is free of water and/or oil
No ICE in system and case it self. It's cold there ...
Try to change seal between steering wheel and driver seat.

 

[ida34]

This is part of cleaning and checking the valve at the shifter. Only $$$ involved here might be some brake clean and shop rags.

 

[steelsoldiers]

It sounds like Chuck has you started with your trouble shooting. The only thing I will add right now is the model number your Dad gave you is actually the Operators Manual for the truck. I highly suggest downloading the Op. manual and the complete set of technical manuals for your truck. It sounds like it is either a M818 or a M52. If it has a Cummins engine, then it is an 818. If it has a turbo-multifuel or a Mack diesel, then it's a M52A2 or A1.

 

[doops22]

I talked to him today, the truck has the multi-fuel engine. So that puts it at an M52A2 or A1?
He tried explaining better to me what is happening... He said if he's trying to make a hill from a stop, or low speed, he can get partway up and the rear wheels start to spin, but it doesn't put power to the front wheels. If he can get a short run at the hill, and get some momentum he can feel the rear wheels start to slip, but the front wheels will engage.

We're interested in the Memphis Equipment kit to convert it the transfer case to manual lock/unlock. I tried to go to their website, but i can't seem to find this REB kit. Another option i guess could be swapping the sprag transfer-case for a manual locking case. Anybody know where i could get either of these?
Thanks for all the info guys.

 

[eldgenb]

You can also weld the sprags. lincoln locker.

 

[ida34]

There are not manual locking cases. All of the M39 (includes your truck) and the 800 series all had sprag transfer cases. The later 900 series had an air actuated transfer case for lock up with a switch on the dash but I do not know if it will bolt in. Memphis may not make them anymore. Give them a call and be sitting down when you wait for the price. You could also just swap out the transfer case but be sure to check the sprag engagement system I talked about first.

BTW. The rear should slip a little before the front engages but it sounds like your front sprag is taking too long to engage.

 

[doops22]

I understand the rear should slip a little before the front engages, but from what I understand, the air actuated transfer case has a switch that will lock it in AWD. I've been reading through the thread you showed me earlier, post #16 here says that the air actuated transfer case is interchangeble with the sprag case...http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce-modification-hot-rodding/13496-reb-kit-2.html
It would be better if we could use the air actuated case, as it would be better to have it locked in AWD when equipment around on the woods roads. I will try to call memphis equipment, should i just ask for a REB kit for a M52A2 or A1?

sorry for all the questions, I don't have any experience with these trucks and all of these numbers are getting me confused. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[ida34]

That post is from the deuce section and it only pertains to the deuce. The deuce comes with sprag or air shift. The deuce and five ton have different transfer cases. Can't take a deuce case and put it on a five ton. These are not interchangeable. Again, the only five ton I know that has an air actuated case is the 900 series and I do not know if the will work in the older five tons. I gave the link so you could hear about the REB kits. I was pretty sure they were made for the five ton also. The sprag deuce and five ton transfer cases work the same but are different. I would think that the parts for the five ton REB would be different than the deuce REB but do not know for sure. Give Memphis a call and they should be able to answer these questions but a deuce air shift case will not work in your five ton. A 900 series may but I can't say for sure. Someone else is going to have to answer that one.

 

[wreckerman893]

I got my M275 (deuce tractor) from a logger that was using it for a pull out truck.
It was an ex-fire truck and had suffered much abuse.
The deuce tractors are rare and using one for logging will destroy it eventually.
I would consider getting a 5 ton tractor for logging and restoring the deuce tractor or selling it to a collector.

 

[steelsoldiers]

You can also install an air shift switch in your dash and run the sprag actuator air lines to the valve in the dash instead of the one on the transmission. Some members on this site have done that conversion. I just used John Winslow's wrecker the other day at his salvage yard and he has his M816 wrecker set up that way. Give him a call and he can sell you the switch and let you know how to hook the air lines up. John's cell: 2528832509

 

[nk14zp]

WM its a m52a2.

 

[doops22]

The truck we have is 5ton series. I will try to call memphis equipment tomorrow and find out about the REB kit.
If there's no luck with that, has anyone tried welding the sprags as eldgenb suggested?
The truck is only used in the woods, on gravel/mud/snow/ice etc. It gets hauled to/from the jobs on a lowbed trailer, so no need to worry about street manners.

 

[doops22]

You can also install an air shift switch in your dash and run the sprag actuator air lines to the valve in the dash instead of the one on the transmission. Some members on this site have done that conversion. I just used John Winslow's wrecker the other day at his salvage yard and he has his M816 wrecker set up that way. Give him a call and he can sell you the switch and let you know how to hook the air lines up. John's cell: 2528832509

So this switch would lock the sprags? or just tell it whether it is forward or reverse?

 

[KsM715]

Carefull with welding the sprag. I have heard (not investigated for my self) that the front and rear spin at different speeds. That would mean that your gonna experience much greater tire wear and possibly broken parts if the tires are on a hard packed surface and not allowed to slip. Not to mention loss of control on a snowy or ice covered corner.

 

[KsM715]

If I understand it right, putting an air switch in the line to main line going to the transmission will keep the sprag from engaging at all (freewheel). With the switch in the off position (no air) the sprag gear just stays in neutral position (between 1st and rev).