ignition/starting trouble

[rocarter]

New to the CUCV-purchased '84 M1009-ran great for 2 months, one I turned it off and the starter wouldn't engage. Checked te batteries, had the starter checked, then took it to the shop. Shop guy said it was something with the neutral safety switch?-he has since then 'bypassed' the safety switch and put in a push button start, he now says it will crank but not turn over? anybody have any ideas and or fixes?

 

[ralbelt]

I'm not one for by passing safety switches, especially neutral switches. So I would get that repaired properly. Then I would test the glow plugs and their circuit.

 

[rocarter]

OK, I'll tell the mech to check those-he did the bypass before asking, said the wiring system was new to him. When trouble shooting before this he had power to everything, but the starter wouldn't do anything, does this sound like the starter relay or something with the ignition?

 

[Crash_AF]

Did your mechanic check the starter relay under the dash? It's a silver relay near the round plug under the radio section of the dash.

If that relay dies, the truck won't start. Unbolt the three bolts and the whole bracket with the starter relay, Gen 2 relay, and Voltmeter relay will come out from under the dash. Test the red wire for 24V. If it doesn't have 24V, check the 24V fuse (10 Amp) at the bottom of the fuse box.

Unfortunately, if the mechanic doesn't know anything about Military Vehicles his diagnosis of the problem is suspect.

Later,
Joe

 

[notsosanestan]

im pretty sure there is no neutral safety switch on these trucks. im betting on its your starter relay. unplug it and using a heavy gauge wire jump the red to the purple. if its starts its your relay

 

[T_F_E]

Mine has neutral safety...

 

[stampy]

Pull all the fuses and clean them with a knife then lube with dielectric grease, same with the starter relay. This has solved multiple electrical gremlins in mine.

 

[rocarter]

Thanks to all the responses-I'm sorry I didn't read more or the posts prior to taking it in to the mechanic-Long story short- mech put in a toggle, toggle fried(white smoke electric fire included), found fried starter relay afterwards, which lead to fried starter-replaced starter with rebuilt starter, put in push button starter (fried on 3rd start attempt-with white smoke coming from the solenoid), we replaced the starter relay with the one from the other posts and still nothing-could this problem be with the regulator or does anybody think I have a more serious matter at hand-I've had this cucv since feb and have only been able to drive it a month and a half total- i really love the vehicle but at this point am thinking I'm in over my head

 

[Warthog]

Sounds like it is a time to find a new mechanic. I cringe when ever I hear someone cutting up the wiring system because they don't understand it. With the diagrams and a little understanding, they are very simple systems.

The CUCV wiring diagrams are some of the best ones out there. Compaired to Chilton or Haynes, there is no comparison.

Use the troubleshooting section of the Tech manual and I will bet you will find the problem. All you are doing now is shooting in the dark.

For a diesel to run you need three things: air, fuel, compression.

The air is supplied air the air filter and intake manifold. Check each one for blockage.

Fuel is delivered via the lift pump and injector pump. The Tech Manual tells how to test each one.

Compression starts with the starter moving the pistons. The pistons in turn compress the air/fuel and creates heat for it to self ignite. You need the electrical portion to work inorder for the mechinal portion to function.

Without each of these items working properly, you will not get the truck to run.


Instead of putting a toggle switch in for the starter, fix the stock system.

 

[transman]

Are you sure your guy is buying 24 volt starters and not the more common12Vcivy units ?

 

[rocarter]

OK-Thanks Warthog and transman-I'm starting to wish we had a mech here with military background, but I'm now stuck trying to go it alone (and I have no background, might have gotten in over my head) The orig starter was a 28 mt 24v, have since had it rebuilt so no change they just replaced what they said needed it, we did redo the toggle and hooked it up with the original starter relay (nothing but a slight click), then followed the directions for the upgrade to the relay and went back to the original ignition on the column (same slight click) Put a true push button ignition on (fried, stuck on and I'm pretty sure fried at least the solenoid maybe the starter) Tomorrow will be another removal of the starter to take it in for a test. We've seen numerous posts with similar issues and no resolution, have you heard of or know of a common short between the relay and the starter that would cause an over amperage that would cause all this electrical trouble?

 

[cucvcan]

Make sure the lugs and wires down to the starter/solenoid are not shorting. Space is pretty tight down there. The push button he, your mechanic, put in may not have been able to handle the 24V. If you jump the starter does it work? Does your wait light come on at all?

 

[Warthog]

Before you start taking things apart, check out the wiring diagrams, then start tracing all the wires in the starting system to see what has failed.

Very easy to do. Just takes some time and understanding. This also will help you learn about the truck and you might be able to teach your mechanic something.

I am a computer guy and have worked on cars all my life. I had never even been near a CUCV before last summer. When I had an issue I would printout the diagram for that system, color the wires and went out and looked at the truck.

I have found that the majority of the issues have been due to dirty/corroded connectors. Sometimes I have had to put new terminal connectors on or splice a wire. All simple stuff.

Do not be ocerwhelmed by the CUCV. It is really a very simple machine. It just has a very extra gadgets (ie two alternators). . Try working on the "new" cars.....no thanks.......

If you can follow a line and read letters you can read these diagrams

OK-... have you heard of or know of a common short between the relay and the starter that would cause an over amperage that would cause all this electrical trouble?

Have you downloaded the Technical Manuals? Have you looked at the troubleshooting section?

an over amperage could only be in two wires. The RED wire from the Positive Terminal Board or the PURPLE wire going to the starter solenoid. I would bet that the issue is in the PURPLE wire. It may have shorted to the engine.

Here is the diagram for the starter system. Download it and save it and print it.

Right click on the thumbnail and choose "Open Link in New Window"

 

[mistaken1]

I would bet that the issue is in the PURPLE wire. It may have shorted to the engine.

That or he is frying 12V solenoids .......

 

[rocarter]

I've been doing more research through threads about this starter issue. I've now seen multiple metions of starter brakets, I know mine didn't have one when I first started into this 3 months ago. Could this be part of the problem and causing other electrical malfuctions such as shorts, if something got cracked somewhere down the line? The most recent re-hook up resulted in the (again) rebuilt starter and solenoid frying.

 

[Warthog]

The support bracket is required. If it is not in place the starter can crack the nose cone or even the block. I wouldn't think it would cause a short.

I know it will be a pain but remove the postive cable going to the starter and check it for any nick or abrasions. Do the same with the purple solenoid wire.

Sound like it is time to check each wire in the starting system for any possible problem. This is why the mechniacs can charge high prices. It takes alot of time.

Is it possible that someone has "modified" the wiring and you don't know it?

I would start fro the begining and look for any modification, repair or replace that section and keep going.

Don't spend anymore money on parts until you can find the cause.

 

[rocarter]

Thanks, that will be my directions over the weekend. I don't know of any mods except the toggle from the start of this mess, but will look. I'll also start looking for a braket, I'm glad I finally calmed down my ADD and read these posts more in depth, thanks again for the help and I appologize for beig a pain, I just want a truck to get from point A to point B and was frustrated.

 

[rocarter]

Ok, so I printed the -20 starting circuits diagram and began tracing the wires from the batteries. I will include pics of what I've found. I'm lost as far as what looks like a bunch of different fuse blocks on the diagrams so took a break, but from the diagram to the actual there are differences in the connections of a couple of wires on the POS TERMINAL BD, I'm not sure when this was done and wondering if anyone can give me a direction. Thanks WH and all others for the feedback, I'm waiting to get the new starter until I make sure nothing else is wrong before I waste more money on another rebuild.

The -20 diagrams refer to a suppressor between the POS and NEG TERM BD, as show in the second pic mine are right on top of each other. The third pic is (I think) of the 12v converter, any guidance would be great.

 

[rocarter]

I checked all the fuses (not just the 20 amp shown, but every one) and they were all good. I did find a box PED 4 that looked like a light purple wire had been soldered to the connection and a blue wire next to it has either burned or was burned attempting to solder it and was not connected. pictures attached of both

 

[mistaken1]

Your images do not download, they are just thumbnails.

Your last picture looks like the glow plug controller. That blue wire is not conducive to a happy glow plug controller card.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/attach...1607843-glow-plug-control-module-glowplug.jpg

Do you have an electrical meter (VOM)?

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