Illinois humvee title problem

[ExFlyBoy]

So after searching endlessly... I find my m988... only a 2 man but with the plans to make her a 4 man hard top ....

Wisconsin clean title and tags, I make the three hour drive home to Minooka Illinois. The next day take the WI title and my old truck (B) plates into the DMV, twenty minutes later my title and plates are transferred to my new baby...... so I thought.
This past Friday I received a letter in the mail from Illinois Secretary of States office. Dear sir, you were issued a highway use title by mistake, you have 30 days to surrender your plates and receive your off-road only title... and oh if you don’t you’re revoked......
so I’m trying to figure out how many MV’s are plated and titled in the state of Illinois ( duces, humvee, anything that needs a plate....) I’ve tried the local dmv with no success. Tomorrow morning I will be scheduling an appeal hearing on the title designation.... any extra ammo I can take to the hearing would be appreciated. If anyone knows how to get some hard numbers of titled MV’s im all ears.
Thanks in advance.


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[ExFlyBoy]

The reason they give is , basically how I read , “cuz we say so”part D at the bottom

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[MWMULES]

I would check with your seller and see if when he originally got it was it sold by Gov Planet with an, This item is offered for "off-road use only" clause.

 

[ExFlyBoy]

A big thanks RyanRuck


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[tie6044]

Ya I see a lot of them for sale online that say "clean title" that I know were bought through Govplanet. They find the right DMV and sneak it through but it's really not a "clean" title.

 

[avlon01]

Register it under the Historic MV plate. That was the only way to title one in IL as far as I knew. Some IL members might be able to help out more.

 

[ryanruck]

Ya I see a lot of them for sale online that say "clean title" that I know were bought through Govplanet. They find the right DMV and sneak it through but it's really not a "clean" title.

There's usually not any "sneaking" about it.

Many states have provisions for retitling off road vehicles of various types into street legal vehicles so long as they meet certain safety equipment requirements, most of which the HMMWV already has thanks to being built to MIL-STD-1180B standards. I've also heard of instances where some states don't recognize the off road branding GP puts on the paperwork at all and simply register them as normal vehicles because they don't "do" off road vehicles.

So yes, a HMMWV really can have a "clean" title and there are a lot of 100% legal and above board options for that.

ETA: The problem is that not every state has the same standards in how they treat off road vehicles, FMVs, and other states' titling procedures. Unfortunately there's very little standardization nationwide in that regard.

 

[Ue413]

Along the theme of no state standardization, I had a utility vehicle (razr) that I sold to a guy who got a title and plates in one of the dakotas and drove it on the road in Missouri. naturally, he had to add turn lights and such, but it surprised me that it was even possible.

 

[Sintorion]

"Clean title" is the biggest scam next to those advertising "actual miles". There is nothing clean about a title. Where it came from has nothing to do with how you are able to register it in your state. Even once it is registered, there is no guarantee that they won't eventually send you a letter like this.

 

[ExFlyBoy]

Update


So after a phone call to IL Special Plates Division , the department that sent the letter, they stated that they have sent numerous letters to new owners of auctioned humvees. I was the first to actually call back and take a stand. After spouting off some valuable information that I graciously obtained from an SS member, she promptly said this is not the department responsible for the States response.... and she will have the proper person contact me.
Yesterday afternoon the administrator of titles called.... first thing she said was “ you know you signed a hold harmless agreement “, “why are you trying to fly under the radar?”......I politely but sternly responded “ I am an Air Force Security Police Veteran, who entered the military in Illinois, did my tours, and returned to this state, and now an employee of this states Department of Transportation.......don’t ever question my integrity again ma’am.............dead silence.............” I’m very sorry Sir”.......
so then I asked what’s the issue? She explained that Gov planet had no records of that vehicle.... ok , not my issue, what do you need from me? “ I need anything you signed... ok I’ll fax the DLA letter I signed stating I won’t export the vehicle if I ever sell, and the bill of sale, but your department already has the “valid” Wisconsin title that was signed by the original owner and myself.... then she started telling me in the nicest manner, as if she’s trying to protect me, that my 10,000 lb truck is incorrectly (B) plated.... and I shouldn’t drive it.... you know cuz it’s so big it’s a distraction to other drivers........ NOW I get it..... it’s her opinion that these big scary military tanks rumbling down her streets with these crazy ex military guys and their single shot fully automatic silenced magazine clips, are going to take over the highway............ whatever
So today I faxed her about 30 pages of emails from Chief Justices of NHTSA to AM General, NHTSA to Senators, Wisconsin plate and title process, EPA acceptance of NHTSA/ AM General finding that m998 is in fact a “on highway use motor vehicle “.....ect
This morning she called and said please don’t send anything else, I have to talk to my boss, I’ll get back to you..............
Score one for the good guys... I’ll keep you posted


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[1 Patriot-of-many]

Some of these states need to see lawsuits. There's no practical or safety difference between a 1980-1990 Jeep, Blazer, Bronco ect ect except a reverse light, easily rectified. Not one of my 5 tons or deuce and a half came with a backup light either, all easily titled and registered and much heavier than a HMMWV for sure.

 

[Croxdale Lad]

First post !!!...love this site ....hello !!!

I feel for these people in Illinois dealin with a pile of bs which is really unnecessary.........as up here in WISC (and we are so close)... ..thanks to that "douche" Scott Walker......he opened the door for us ..!!!
its so easy to get a humvee on road....a few of my friends were amazed.......just skip driving it in January.........and I see on local sales sites here where humvee's sit for weeks with no sales

 

[aleigh]

Some of these states need to see lawsuits. There's no practical or safety difference between a 1980-1990 Jeep, Blazer, Bronco ect ect except a reverse light, easily rectified. Not one of my 5 tons or deuce and a half came with a backup light either, all easily titled and registered and much heavier than a HMMWV for sure.

I think this every time I drive down the highway in my 2009 Jeep with no doors. I mean, that can't be safe, yet here we are. The difference is for that vehicle class, Chrysler warrantied that the vehicle met safety and emission standards for the year of manufacture and provided test articles for the DOT, EPA, and whoever to blow up. Plenty of late-model european cars would meet standards, or could meet standards with trivial modifications like DOT headlights, but you don't see them for sale here in the US either... at least not until the EPA 21-year and NHSTA 25-year exemptions kicks in. We see this in the "overlanding" community a lot with people trying to bring in Toyotas from overseas. 25 years takes us to what, 1992, which is around the age of the HMMWVs I see on GP these days. I wonder if that's not why I'm seeing more and more of them driving around here in AZ with state plates and apparently not a care in the world, because the agencies are just ceasing to care.

So OP if you get more trouble, and I am hoping you don't, you might look into the age of the truck and the import/operation exemptions based on that. Personally, because I'd like to own one of these trucks. It's great that you're taking a stand. The title situation put me off for a long time but out here CL is like your-choice of HMMWVs already with plates. Maybe I'll let it shake out for a few more years and see where everyone lands.

On the heavy trucks, right or wrong, the feds just never much cared if the working man dies in his crane truck or garbage truck or whatever. Just too hard/expensive to make those things safe and not enough fatalities to matter I guess. Like farmers don't want to get in the way of industry either. The emissions are different too - don't they certify the engine, not the application, unlike a passenger vehicle (car)? So if you have a heavy thing that is not intended for passengers which has an EPA certified engine for the year of manufacture and blinkers you're basically good to go.

 

[ryanruck]

Some of these states need to see lawsuits. There's no practical or safety difference between a 1980-1990 Jeep, Blazer, Bronco ect ect except a reverse light, easily rectified. Not one of my 5 tons or deuce and a half came with a backup light either, all easily titled and registered and much heavier than a HMMWV for sure.

I'll do you one better!

Here in Ohio you can title and plate golf carts and operate them on public roads (pretty sure highways are excluded but I'm not up on the golf cart regs since I don't own one). And this is fairly recent legislation that was passed.

So...

Bad:


Good!


Spotted this at a local restaurant in town over the summer:



Oh, and you can also build a vehicle in your garage, like a tube buggy out of nothing but tubing and sheet metal, and title that as a home build for road use no problem so long as it has the safety equipment (lights, belts, etc.) and gets a VIN.

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

The funny thing is that golf cart probably cost more than a HMMWV!!!!! To each his own, right.

 

[ExFlyBoy]

Update

The HBIC of titles, the same one that said I was trying to fly under the radar, called..... she was all too happy to inform me that the original owner did in fact sign a hold harmless agreement from Gov Planet, so my vehicle will be registered as “off road use only “. Told her I was attempting to schedule an appeal hearing with legal, but they haven’t returned my calls as of yet. She informed me that SHE has contacted legal “on my behalf “..... and they said I don’t qualify for an appeal hearing...........WTF, go figure the one that wants to keep it off the road, supposedly spoke to the States Council for me “on my behalf “...... right.
Made some calls to some of my higher ups in the Department if Transportation, and got a cell number and direct fax number for lead counsel...... guess who I’m calling in the a.m........
Keep the faith, the struggle is real hahahahahaha

I’ll keep everyone posted


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[ryanruck]

Make sure you inform them that the Hold Harmless, by GovPlanet's own admission, is only applicable as the equipment is delivered to the original buyer by them, as 1 Patriot-of-many pointed out is on GP's site.

Are HMMWVs Street-Legal?

Not to start with. HMMWVs from the DLA cannot be taken on the road until you meet your state’s vehicle inspection requirements, and receive a state title and registration from your local DMV or State titling authority. However, some HMMWVs are sold on consignment, where the previous owner may already received proper titling and registration. Not all states will accept out of state titling documents on HMMWVs or other Former Military Vehicles. Please ensure that you contact your state titling/registration authority for your individual state’s requirements.

Clearly the WI owner brought it into compliance with WI law to get a WI on road title. Find out why, given the above from GP and besides the original purchaser signing the Hold Harmless, they would not honor transfer of a WI on road title. If they persist, ask them what the process/requirements are to bring it into compliance with IL statute if they don't want to recognize WI's road title (or check yourself to see what the procedure is, if one exists).

Make sure they understand, by GP's own admission, that the Hold Harmless is not some eternally standing agreement that transfers ownership. You were not a signatory on the original HH nor did the WI seller make you sign one, so you cannot be legally bound by it either.

 

[simp5782]

In all honestly, you are not going to get anywhere. You may draw a red flag onto other members here who live in your state who have HMMWVs and have gotten thru and they pull everyone. There is a loophole in most states that applies to ALL vehicles regardless of their weight/on/offroad/safety conditions and that is the farm vehicle law. Some of them don't even require seatbelts. Simple enough is to learn how your state recognizes farms. Some don't even require you to have a garden. in TN you just have to list one with the county clerks office and pay the annual taxes on anything sold. doesn't say you have to sell anything. it allows you to travel within 150miles of your AO with the tags or without a CDL if you are hauling. They don't tend to care about the make of the vehicle on those. since some states require registration on tractors some don't.

If you need a title to match your Vin that they can not flag thru your clerks office just send me a PM. I can help you out on that.

 

[ExFlyBoy]

Make sure you inform them that the Hold Harmless, by GovPlanet's own admission, is only applicable as the equipment is delivered to the original buyer by them, as 1 Patriot-of-many pointed out is on GP's site.

Clearly the WI owner brought it into compliance with WI law to get a WI on road title. Find out why, given the above from GP and besides the original purchaser signing the Hold Harmless, they would not honor transfer of a WI on road title. If they persist, ask them what the process/requirements are to bring it into compliance with IL statute if they don't want to recognize WI's road title (or check yourself to see what the procedure is, if one exists).

Make sure they understand, by GP's own admission, that the Hold Harmless is not some eternally standing agreement that transfers ownership. You were not a signatory on the original HH nor did the WI seller make you sign one, so you cannot be legally bound by it either.

That’s the plan. DOT trucker cop( commercial vehicle enforcement) gave me a number to an inspection facility that inspects and converts humvees for some Cook County (Chicago area) municipalities....


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[Sintorion]

Update

The HBIC of titles, the same one that said I was trying to fly under the radar, called..... she was all too happy to inform me that the original owner did in fact sign a hold harmless agreement from Gov Planet, so my vehicle will be registered as “off road use only “. Told her I was attempting to schedule an appeal hearing with legal, but they haven’t returned my calls as of yet. She informed me that SHE has contacted legal “on my behalf “..... and they said I don’t qualify for an appeal hearing...........WTF, go figure the one that wants to keep it off the road, supposedly spoke to the States Council for me “on my behalf “...... right.
Made some calls to some of my higher ups in the Department if Transportation, and got a cell number and direct fax number for lead counsel...... guess who I’m calling in the a.m........
Keep the faith, the struggle is real hahahahahaha

I’ll keep everyone posted


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What relevance does the hold harmless have in regards to your situation? A hold harmless is an agreement between a buyer and a seller stating the buyer won't sue the seller. Using the same nonsensical line of thought, if you bought a vehicle with a salvage title, you sign a hold harmless stating that you know it has a salvage title. Does that mean that you could never make that vehicle road worthy?