in search of info on M534/M62 hydraulic pump setup

[steelcaptain]

in search of info on M543/M62 hydraulic pump setup

I am soon to install a large hydraulic pump on my M54A2 using a M543 pto off the transfercase but having difficulty finding photos or drawings of the coupling arrangement used. Looked in all the TMs but seem to be missing the exact pages. If anyone can point me to the exact manual or pages to look at or even better, if someone has a photo of their M543 or M62 pump arrangement I could see it would be most appreciated.

I am also wondering if the wrecker pumps ran full time when the truck was running since the pto can't be disengaged?

thanks in advance from the far NW and happy holidays to all

 

[porkysplace]

I am soon to install a large hydraulic pump on my M54A2 using a M534 pto off the transfercase but having difficulty finding photos or drawings of the coupling arrangement used. Looked in all the TMs but seem to be missing the exact pages. If anyone can point me to the exact manual or pages to look at or even better, if someone has a photo of their M543 or M62 pump arrangement I could see it would be most appreciated.

I am also wondering if the wrecker pumps ran full time when the truck was running since the pto c?
an't be disengaged
thanks in advance from the far NW and happy holidays to all

The PTO can be disengaged .

 

[steelcaptain]

The PTO can be disengaged .

how is that?

I guess also that the M816 wreckers used the same arrangement to connect their pumps to the T-case?

 

[m16ty]

The M816 t-case PTO turns any time the trans in in gear and the foot clutch is engaged. The on and off of the hyd pump is controlled by the power divider. I don't know how you'd have the ability to disengage the pump without the wrecker power divider also.

What you probably need is a transmission PTO (with accessory drive would be ideal) to run the pump. It would make for a much easier and cleaner setup if all you want to do is run a hyd pump.

 

[steelcaptain]

The M816 t-case PTO turns any time the trans in in gear and the foot clutch is engaged. The on and off of the hyd pump is controlled by the power divider. I don't know how you'd have the ability to disengage the pump without the wrecker power divider also.

What you probably need is a transmission PTO (with accessory drive would be ideal) to run the pump. It would make for a much easier and cleaner setup if all you want to do is run a hyd pump.

my plan was to have a recirc valve back to the reservoir to use when hydraulics aren't required to be used. not sure how many HP I will lose when just driving but since the truck is not a truck I put any miles on anyway...

 

[gimpyrobb]

Well, on the m62, you turn on the transfer case pto to run the wrecker hydraulic system. It is not running while driving unless you forget to turn it off. I would assume the 543 and 816 are the same way. If you can't find a transfer case pto, i might have a transmission pto available.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

I have a m543 pump if you need it.

The biggest issue with a free flow pump circuit is the oil will heat up. If you don't do a ton of road miles that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

[73m819]

I just got off the phone with the op, he has the WRONG pto for his use, he is going to look for the correct pto from m246/m819 OR a stand-a-lone jaw clutch unit, Grainger or other suppliers have a bunch to chose from

 

[m16ty]

Well, on the m62, you turn on the transfer case pto to run the wrecker hydraulic system. It is not running while driving unless you forget to turn it off. I would assume the 543 and 816 are the same way.

No. On a M816, the PTO turns all the time the clutch is engaged and the trans is in gear. The power divider is what turns the hyd pump on and off and also sends power to the rear winch when needed.

Ron is right. They do make a shiftable t-case PTO to fit the 5-ton t-case. It sounds like the OP has one off a M816 that isn't shiftable.

 

[steelcaptain]

From what Ron told me there is a declutchable PTO for the M819 wreckers which is what I would like to find but don't hold out much hope for one of those so if I intend to mount my pump immediately behind the transfer case on my M54, I need some form of a clutch which would allow me to disconnect the pump when not needed which I am looking for now although my hydraulic reservoir is a large one (40gal) and immediately behind the pump. My hope was that if I fit a diverter valve at the pump to recirc oil right back to the tank, the lack of restrictions between pump and tank would not cause the oil to heat significantly along with the size of the tank being large would allow heat dissipation to happen at the same.

I am sure I can come up with a clutch to use but now am afraid that I am very limited with space to fit it in. I was going to mount the pump directly to the crossmember behind the T-case so only have a few inches to play with.

If anyone can provide other alternatives which would possibly work for me, I am all ears to hear about them.

 

[m16ty]

I'd look for a trans PTO with a accessory drive. They would be much more plentiful than a t-case PTO from a M819.

You can find pumps with electric clutches but they tend to be smaller GPM.

You could fab up some sort of jaw clutch but it's likely going to be cumbersome and require quite a bit of fab work.

Another least desirable option would be to make some sort of coupler where you could crawl up under the truck and manually disconnect the driveshaft when not in use, think tractor PTO shaft.

If at all possible, I wouldn't want the pump running all the time. That's just adding wear and tear to all the components involved when you don't need it.

 

[73m819]

Wish you were a few miles closer, this would be a good FTF turn key project.

 

[steelcaptain]

maybe a longshot, but is it possible to have the PTO for the winch on my truck also output to the rear? I see a cylindrical portion at the bottom of it with a bolt on endcap and wondering if a second shaft is possible? If I could drive the hydraulic pump from that PTO it would solve all my problems. Just a thought and hope others can tell me if the PTO's can be modified to work in both directions? Also what ratio does the winch PTO run at?

 

[m16ty]

Yes, it's called a accessory drive. The 5-ton dump trucks used them.

 

[steelcaptain]

bring this one back to life as I have a few ideas I want to try out here

1. can the 20k# Garwood winch be converted from direct drive from the PTO to a hydraulic drive and if so what is the difficulty factor/drawbacks? if I go this route, I can use the PTO on the gearbox to drive my hydraulic pump (is that PTO a 1:1 ratio?)

2. I have seen Allis Chalmers tractor hand clutches for sale on eBay for reasonable prices and am thinking one of those could be used to disconnect the hydraulic pump from the PTO I have at the back of the T-case. What are the thoughts of going this route? I still would like to drive the pump with that PTO since I have it and there is lots of room available back there. I am not too keen on having the pump way down below the gearbox.

3. if I make the hydraulic pump belt driven, m16ty mentioned using a pulley with an electric clutch to disconnect the pump but my experience with those is with Jabsco bilge pumps on boats. I am wondering if any such clutch can take the torgue of driving a large hydraulic pump? This seems to be the easiest answer of all if it might work

what are your thoughts on these options?

 

[steelcaptain]

let me add here that I have been told that it is possible a commercial PTO would work with my Spicer gearbox that would have the accessory output shaft...can anyone here give me any more insight into this or can my existing PTO be modified to include the second output shaft?

thanks in advance from the far PNW

 

[steelcaptain]

bumping back up in the hope for some insight into my project. I need to come up with a solution this week to be able to move ahead to completion

can anyone tell me what a winch pto gear ration is? is it 1:1 of does it reduce output rpm?

 

[73m819]

The transfer pto is 1-1 with the input, pto output depends on what gear the transmission is in, do not know about the trans pto

 

[steelcaptain]

The transfer pto is 1-1 with the input, pto output depends on what gear the transmission is in, do not know about the trans pto

I was thinking the transmission pto output ratio?

any thoughts on converting a Garwood winch to hydraulic drive? Much as I think pto winches are cool, I like the idea of having the greater control of the winch that you get with hydraulics and I am turning my M54 into a workhorse rather than a collector's piece so originality is not a consideration.

also we spoke on the phone about dog clutches but what about a tractor hand clutch if I were to use the transfer case pto?

 

[73m819]

The tractor pto hand clutch would work of you could make it a stand a lone unit.