Is this a symptom of a problem or the possible cause?

[reaper556]

Most rebuild shops have the nose piece or can readily get it. Probably rebuild for half the new price above. I'm not convinced the armature didn't get into the field however. That's not a bad price for new...if it's really new, not just cleaned up.

Disregard the new starter price, l wasn't paying attention its a 12v starter. If the armature got into the field does that make this one not rebuildable ?

 

[cucvrus]

That starter is rebuild-able. And it should be less then the price you listed. I had the HMMWV starter rebuilt and it needed an armature and it was about $240. I was happy with that.

 

[tobyS]

If the armature got into the field does that make this one not rebuildable ?

Not necessarily. It depends how long it rubbed and the amount of damage. Take it apart and see. A rebuild shop will know what to do with the box of parts if it looks okay. Napa probably knows of a shop not too far...or can do it.

 

[reaper556]

That starter is rebuild-able. And it should be less then the price you listed. I had the HMMWV starter rebuilt and it needed an armature and it was about $240. I was happy with that.

I would be good with that as well. I didn't know you had a HMMWV also? I guess I didn't figure you for the type lol

 

[NovacaineFix]

Dumb question and assumption but shouldn't that starter gear not be contacting the flywheel when the ignition is off and not in the full forward start position?

You are correct. That is what they call the Bendix gear of the starter. Like Ue413 is saying, when the starter solenoid is activated upon the turning of the ignition switch, it moves that bendix gear forward and it engages the flywheel. It then retracts once the ignition switch is let go and put in the "run" position.
This is why the ignition switch has a spring action to it, to keep the starter from engaging too long.

The video shows it in slo motion. Not a 6.2, but all the same anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C6p8RfxMiY

 

[royalflush55]

Do not try to run without a starter brace!!!

 

[reaper556]

I'm running a gear reduction starter from hillbilly wizard and love it. It seems to draw less on my batteries, I've never had any smoking wires from extended crankin. Also the actual weight of the starter is less, so it's easier to Install, and some say you done need the bracket then, also the stock bracket won't fit so you can either buy or make the correct one or run without. I am very happy with the GR starter, it can be pricy but I am a true believer.

I'm pondering getting the GR starter and the required brace and running that and having my current direct drive rebuilt as a spare. You didn't have to mess with any shims and such on your 28MT install?

 

[royalflush55]

I'm pondering getting the GR starter and the required brace and running that and having my current direct drive rebuilt as a spare. You didn't have to mess with any shims and such on your 28MT install?

Are you going to stay with the 12 volt system you have now or change back to 24 volt?

 

[cucvrus]

You didn't have to mess with any shims and such on your 28MT install?

A word of advise. A 28 MT will need shimmed to engage properly also. That shimming just sets the depth that the gears mess and engage. I pulled the bad engine from the HMMWV and the starter had a shim on it. When I installed the new engine I put the shim back on the starter. I always try to keep the starters with the vehicle and same engine. I just wanted you to know that you need to shim a 28 MT the same way if the engagement is to deep. You knew that I assume?

 

[reaper556]

Are you going to stay with the 12 volt system you have now or change back to 24 volt?

mine is 24v not 12v.

 

[reaper556]

You didn't have to mess with any shims and such on your 28MT install?

A word of advise. A 28 MT will need shimmed to engage properly also. That shimming just sets the depth that the gears mess and engage. I pulled the bad engine from the HMMWV and the starter had a shim on it. When I installed the new engine I put the shim back on the starter. I always try to keep the starters with the vehicle and same engine. I just wanted you to know that you need to shim a 28 MT the same way if the engagement is to deep. You knew that I assume?

I didn't know that. I have heard in the past its best to keep the same starter with the engine for that reason

 

[cucvrus]

I just never had much trouble with starters and engagement on any CUCV's. I always used a reliable re-builder and I am sure that helped to bypass some of the common starter issues. As a rule I just rebuild the starter as I see fit. If I think it hiccuped wrong I remove it and get it checked out. I do like the direct drive starters better. They seem to take more cranking and abuse. I have had very little issues with starters in my years. A few but nothing exciting. One time I had a truck that ate flex plates. I changed the re-builder and that problem went away. I remember the new re-builder saying the the brushes were 12 volt and that the Bendix was not right. So thus i use a re-builder. I do not have all the tools and equipment they use to re-build electrical parts. So far so good. When did you add the Blue Oval to the list of favorites? I will be looking for sheep head next.

 

[reaper556]

I just never had much trouble with starters and engagement on any CUCV's. I always used a reliable re-builder and I am sure that helped to bypass some of the common starter issues. As a rule I just rebuild the starter as I see fit. If I think it hiccuped wrong I remove it and get it checked out. I do like the direct drive starters better. They seem to take more cranking and abuse. I have had very little issues with starters in my years. A few but nothing exciting. One time I had a truck that ate flex plates. I changed the re-builder and that problem went away. I remember the new re-builder saying the the brushes were 12 volt and that the Bendix was not right. So thus i use a re-builder. I do not have all the tools and equipment they use to re-build electrical parts. So far so good. When did you add the Blue Oval to the list of favorites? I will be looking for sheep head next.

LOL well I got the blue oval about 2 months ago to use as my daily driver since it has A/C and a drivetrain that I like even though I'm more of a Chevy guy. Its built with the heavy duty stuff and power nothing, just the way I like them. It has been a hand full ever since as the previous owner who had it for over 20 years never fixed or maintained anything only neglect and patch jobs so I'm trying to get it back on the straight and narrow.

I work only 5 miles from home so I just drive old iron and keep the wife in newer dealer serviced vehicles. I wanted it so I can tackle the larger projects thru the year on my CUCV's and not worry about being down or having to rush them back together.

As for the sheeps head....well I have tried those too and it must be an acquired taste I couldn't warm up to them.

Do you have a HMMWV I read?

 

[royalflush55]

mine is 24v not 12v.

In post 15 your picture of your starter shows part numbers Delco 336-1900 or GM 19136209. Both these numbers correspond to a 12 volt starter. I would bet that is why your starter broke(blew up) and looks like it does now. You need to buy a 24 volt starter if you have an original 24 volt system. Good luck!

 

[reaper556]

In post 15 your picture of your starter shows part numbers Delco 336-1900 or GM 19136209. Both these numbers correspond to a 12 volt starter. I would bet that is why your starter broke(blew up) and looks like it does now. You need to buy a 24 volt starter if you have an original 24 volt system. Good luck!

Hmmm the plot thickens, I didn't know this. The only thing I noticed is it came from the Army with the resistor bypass and there were 2 starter bolts (I didn't know what they were at the time) in the passenger floor board.

I just set the terminals back on the posts for the pics as I had them disconnected for removing the starter. Everything I think looks the same as my other 1028 that is all stock except for a resistor bypass.

So a shot of 24volts to this 12v starter would cause the destruction I have here?

 

[royalflush55]

I would say some one installed a 12 volt starter by mistake.

 

[reaper556]

can this one be built to 24v specs or is it just about useless to me now? The only difference I see between the wires on the A1 vs my other 1028 is they have a separate power wire going to the diamond and the glow plug relay from each battery where as my regular 1028 has 1 wire going to the diamond and the GPR gets its 12v from there.

 

[tobyS]

Just a guess, but 24v would seem to have less turns on the field wires and they would likely be smaller. But I don't know the difference from experience. Putting 24v into a 12v starter will (try to) turn twice as fast. That may have been the reason the bell is broken. It tried to send it through the housing due to speed.

 

[CUCVLOVER]

I'm pondering getting the GR starter and the required brace and running that and having my current direct drive rebuilt as a spare. You didn't have to mess with any shims and such on your 28MT install?

When I pulled my old starter it didn't have any shims and everything looked good so I didn't use any when I put the GR on. Held it in place ran bolts up snug with a impact gun and then wrench tight. I have not had any issues and I put that starter on before Christmas I think.

 

[cucvrus]

To answer the question about converting the 12 to 24 and vise versa. Yes it can be done. I have grabbed every core 6.2 diesel starter I can get my hands on. I also get every alternator from every old GM Pontiac,Oldsmobile, Cadillac and what ever to use as re-buildable cores for CUCV's. The re-builder adds the isolated ground and what ever needs done. Same goes for injection pumps and lines. I keep all them cores I can get. I never pay core charges. I always have a core for everything I buy that needs a core. I do not know of any difference in the 12 volt to 24 volt starter nose. I had some that had cast iron starter noses on them in the past. I know they have a mudder nose for the CUCV that was original put they called them a closed nose and an open nose. I imagine the closed nose had more strength. But I used what ever and with no big problems.