Is this a symptom of a problem or the possible cause?

[PJL]

Not necessarily. It depends how long it rubbed and the amount of damage. Take it apart and see. A rebuild shop will know what to do with the box of parts if it looks okay. Napa probably knows of a shop not too far...or can do it.

On mine the 2 long bolts that hold the case on were loose due to the rear bracket being loose. The armature had been rubbing against to field bad enough to stop the starter from turning. It cranked slowly when hot. After we pulled it apart, greased and tightened everything correctly it worked fine. Was this the best way to fix it? No. But we only run the truck on private property and short distances at that. So I can live with it. I'm definitely on the lookout for another 24 volt starter.

 

[reaper556]

Well since I'm down until I get my starter rebuilt and or a new one bought this week I went ahead and did the doghead mod on this one also.

 

[67caprice427]

Too bad you're not close enough to pick these up- I've got a brand new in the box 28gr, and a good used 27 that was on my daily driver until the ip went out. I'm doing a BBC/ 12v conversion, and have no use for these. Shipping charges are terrible- was quoted $ 80.00 to ship these to Colorado...... I only want $ 100.00 for both.

 

[reaper556]

I'm picking up several sets of new GM starter bolts. Does anyone know the size of the washer that would be correct for them or is it typical to reuse the old washers?

 

[NovacaineFix]

I'm picking up several sets of new GM starter bolts. Does anyone know the size of the washer that would be correct for them or is it typical to reuse the old washers?

Shouldn't be any washers at all. The starter bolts had a wide shoulder under the bolt head to act like a washer. I wouldn't add a washer to one since that will put a stress point on the starter housing and lessen the amount the starter bolts protrude into the block. Not by much but maybe just enough. Just make sure that you are using actual "starter bolts" and not just some grade 5 run of the mill bolts from the hardware store. Starter bolts have a cross hatch on the shaft of the bolt for a reason. Now some aftermarket bolts have larger heads, they may come with washers, but stock style, no washers.

You can do what you want, but I have probably done easily a 1,000 starters on GM small blocks and similar styles, never seen a washer for any of them, shims, but no washers.

Now if you meant shim, that's a different story. Unless you took one out previously, start with 0, then add as needed. If it sounds like it's grinding add enough for clearance, no more. If you are having to add shims, also check the clearance when the engine is hot, as everything expands when hot.

Good Luck.

 

[reaper556]

Shouldn't be any washers at all. The starter bolts had a wide shoulder under the bolt head to act like a washer. I wouldn't add a washer to one since that will put a stress point on the starter housing and lessen the amount the starter bolts protrude into the block. Not by much but maybe just enough. Just make sure that you are using actual "starter bolts" and not just some grade 5 run of the mill bolts from the hardware store. Starter bolts have a cross hatch on the shaft of the bolt for a reason. Now some aftermarket bolts have larger heads, they may come with washers, but stock style, no washers.

You can do what you want, but I have probably done easily a 1,000 starters on GM small blocks and similar styles, never seen a washer for any of them, shims, but no washers.

Now if you meant shim, that's a different story. Unless you took one out previously, start with 0, then add as needed. If it sounds like it's grinding add enough for clearance, no more. If you are having to add shims, also check the clearance when the engine is hot, as everything expands when hot.

Good Luck.

Hmmm, I ask as these I pulled from this starter which is the wrong starter (12v instead of 24v) has them and the starter head appears to have a recess or milled out area the same size as the washers on these. If they don't belong I believe you as they were probably added by the same person that was being all they could be when they put the wrong starter on.

 

[cucvrus]

It matters not if it has flat washers or flange bolts. the pressure will still be at the same place. Why would it be different if the washer is loose or flanged right on the bolt? But you can use 3/8" flat washers. This is not a close tolerance item. It is a clamp /fastener to keep the starter motor tight on the block nothing more. Do make sure you are using the correct M10 X 1.5 metric starter bolts. So technically if you want to get technical use M10 flat washers. I would be hard pressed to tell you that 3/8 is a micron smaller then M10. the 3/8" bolt will thread into the M10 holes. Not exactly but the work. I bought many trucks in the past that had the 3/8" starter bolts in place. I always check this stuff. Not a bad idea when you buy anything used to go completely over it before it goes completely over you. Good Luck. I hope I helped.

 

[reaper556]

It matters not if it has flat washers or flange bolts. the pressure will still be at the same place. Why would it be different if the washer is loose or flanged right on the bolt? But you can use 3/8" flat washers. This is not a close tolerance item. It is a clamp /fastener to keep the starter motor tight on the block nothing more. Do make sure you are using the correct M10 X 1.5 metric starter bolts. So technically if you want to get technical use M10 flat washers. I would be hard pressed to tell you that 3/8 is a micron smaller then M10. the 3/8" bolt will thread into the M10 holes. Not exactly but the work. I bought many trucks in the past that had the 3/8" starter bolts in place. I always check this stuff. Not a bad idea when you buy anything used to go completely over it before it goes completely over you. Good Luck. I hope I helped.

So I will run the new ones without a washer then. I'm getting GM 15544950 bolts, a handful of them actually since I'm already paying shipping.

 

[cucvrus]

Did you find a rebuilt starter? I have a good re-builder that will ship if anyone wants the address. Leidy Repair 2427 South 5th Avenue Lebanon PA 17042 717 769-2283. Talk to Nelson or Leroy. they are the only 2 employees and they will fix you up. they sell all sorts of gauges and electrical parts. they have everything you need. Hope that helps someone.

 

[reaper556]

Did you find a rebuilt starter? I have a good re-builder that will ship if anyone wants the address. Leidy Repair 2427 South 5th Avenue Lebanon PA 17042 717 769-2283. Talk to Nelson or Leroy. they are the only 2 employees and they will fix you up. they sell all sorts of gauges and electrical parts. they have everything you need. Hope that helps someone.

I got a great package deal on a good MT27 and a new MT28 from 67caprice427 in this thread, he's converting to 12v and gas and no longer needed them. I should have them tomorrow. I'm taking the one I pulled off the truck tomorrow also to a rebuild shop the company I work for uses to rebuild starters and alts on our equipment to see if they can rebuild it and to the 24v specs I need. If so it will go on the shelf as a spare.

 

[reaper556]

I'm installing a new starter this morning, this is my first starter install so how tight do I need to go with the starter bolts? I'm using brand new GM bolts and I do not have a torque wrench.

Will they bottom out and stop at all?

 

[reaper556]

Ok just an update. I installed a new starter today. I got a MT27 and a MT28 curtesy of 67caprice427. I chose to try the MT28. I went ahead and picked up a torque wrench and I'm glad I did as the tightness I put on the starter bolts wasn't quite 33ft lbs as I'm a bad judge of tightness I guess.

The truck started loped a few seconds then smoothed out into its normal high idle for about 30 seconds then went down to normal speed. Either the voltmeter isn't working/hooked up or I'm not charging, however neither GEN light stays on.

All in all I'm happy thus far

 

[royalflush55]

Good to here it started and ran ok. Now just work out the bugs.

 

[usabamaman]

Ok just an update. I installed a new starter today. I got a MT27 and a MT28 curtesy of 67caprice427. I chose to try the MT28. I went ahead and picked up a torque wrench and I'm glad I did as the tightness I put on the starter bolts wasn't quite 33ft lbs as I'm a bad judge of tightness I guess.

The truck started loped a few seconds then smoothed out into its normal high idle for about 30 seconds then went down to normal speed. Either the voltmeter isn't working/hooked up or I'm not charging, however neither GEN light stays on.

All in all I'm happy thus far

First try tapping the voltmeter while the engine is running, i use the cap end of a small can of WD-40. Second check the # 12 fuse, it is a 10 amp one, this one goes to the voltmeter.

 

[reaper556]

Thanks I will try that, I cant start it now since my keys are riding around in the wife's car at the moment. I did pull the fuse, it doesn't appear blown but I replaced it anyway. I didn't notice the gen 2 light coming on at all yesterday, just the gen 1 light which went out as soon as the truck fired up. I suspect the gen 2 light could be burned out.

 

[usabamaman]

My light was doing the same thing, i went into to dash and replaced the number one alt bulb, then the number two was out, along with some of the other dash bulbs. I replaced many of them, but found the problem with the number two alt. and some of the others is actually bad bulb sockets. I left the red covers off the alternator lights for now, so i can stick my finger thru the hole and jiggle the bulb. This will work until i can figure out how to replace the sockets.

 

[reaper556]

Has anyone installed the GM starter bolts that do not have a flange made into the head of the bolt? The new ones I bought don't and I didn't install any washers or spacers if you call them that and I have a guy telling me the bolt heads will eat into the starter head where the bolts screw in without them. Is this true or a non issue?

 

[cucvrus]

I seen them both ways. Just add a thin SAE 3/8 washer and call it a day. A wave washer in 3/8" will work also. No washer will work. a flange bolt will work. I think if they are tight no worries. But what do I know? As long as they are M10 1.5 bolts you should be good to go. I do know HMMWV starter bolts are longer. I had a few and used them in a pinch with a couple washers. Changed them as soon as I could. Good Luck.

 

[reaper556]

I seen them both ways. Just add a thin SAE 3/8 washer and call it a day. A wave washer in 3/8" will work also. No washer will work. a flange bolt will work. I think if they are tight no worries. But what do I know? As long as they are M10 1.5 bolts you should be good to go. I do know HMMWV starter bolts are longer. I had a few and used them in a pinch with a couple washers. Changed them as soon as I could. Good Luck.

Thanks Rick I'll just leave them as they are and not remove them to add any. I know they are torqued properly since I used a torque wrench set to 33 ft lbs to be sure I had them tight enough and correct