It is time... Enter the age of the Cummins

[burbn10]

First off, I hate you for getting a P-Pump motor for a grand!!!

A 12V will fit in a GM frame with no suspension lift, in case anyone was wondering. You don't need any body lift to make it fit either.

Scott Oswalt, owner of TN Diesel Conversions makes a crossmember and motor mount kit, which is what I'm using. While they are somewhat pricey, you can have them the same week. He keeps them in stock and is also a Cummins dealer; I deal with him frequently. Also, any time I have ever called him for "tech support" he has always answered and walked me through my problem, even on a Sunday.

A good reason not to use a Duece trans is ease and availability of parts, plus it's really heavy and adapting it to a transfer case would be a pain. Then you have to get the clutch hydraulics to function, etc. Too much work...plus, SAE bellhousings are huge and there's not a whole lot of room to work with in a GM transmission tunnel when doing this swap.

I have a 3200 rpm governor spring in my VE pump. Works a lot better than the stock 2400. Way easier to cover the gearing gap between 3rd and 4th on an NV4500 and I can make some nice boost (a hair over 30 lbs). With 4.56s and 39s, I can easily run down the highway with traffic (faster too) and net some pretty good fuel milage.

What else? Umm...


Oh, if you use the 34" core radiator from the 6.2, you will severely over-cool a Cummins. In addition, the intercooler will not fit around it and getting the radiator hoses to fit is a pain in and of itself. 2nd gen intercoolers (IE: P-pump motor 94-98.5) fit better and you really don't have to trim much out of the core support.

Lastly, there are no computers. All 12V Cummins motors are mechanical, however, in certain applications such as a Dodge truck, they used a computer to control the alternator's output and the transmission. This is not needed to make it function as you can use a Dodge style external voltage regulator, but you will need to add a capacitor in the keyed wire to keep the lights from pulsing OR you can do what I did after you get tired of that crap and get up with PA Performance for one of their 1-wire conversion alternators. You can get a 136 amp or a 200 amp hi-output alternator. I also got a 4 ga power wire kit with a 200 amp mini-fuse holder. No more charging problems what-so-ever, plus more amperage than the stock 120. Again, expensive parts, but they're worth it and they last a while.

I suggest using everything from under the hood of the Dodge. Radiator, intercooler, etc, etc. Makes everything fit better and work likes it's supposed to. Also, first gen (89-93) exhaust fits much better because of the downpipe. I was running a 2nd gen exhaust, but the downpipe was on the firewall, so I copied the design of the first gen downpipe and made my own.


If you have any more questions or concerns, feel free to ask. If I can't answer them, I'll put you in contact with some people than can!

Thanks a lot man! You've already been invaluable to this project. I'll probably hit you up for info when I start this.

 

[Croatan_Kid]

No problem. Hopefully I can save you some time, money and aggravation over the course of the swap. If I do, mission accomplished!


If you weren't so far away I'd come lend a hand!

 

[dstang97]

Crotan what tranny did you use. Dodge or chevy? Could you use a dodge bell housing with a chevy nv4500 so you could use a round 205.

What is the best way to achieve a nv4500 and a round chevy 205?

Also is $2400 a good price for a 1997 215hp p-pumped motor 170K?

 

[burbn10]

Crotan what tranny did you use. Dodge or chevy? Could you use a dodge bell housing with a chevy nv4500 so you could use a round 205.

What is the best way to achieve a nv4500 and a round chevy 205?

Also is $2400 a good price for a 1997 215hp p-pumped motor 170K?

Easiest is to use a Dodge NV4500 and a NP205 from a 89-91 Dodge Ram. It has the same side drop as the Chevy. If you start mixing and matching, the input/output shaft splines are different. You can make it work, but it is easier to just run all Dodge stuff.

And $2400 is a pretty good price for that motor. The 97-98 12v's were the best of the bunch.

 

[Croatan_Kid]

Actually....it's easier to run a GM NV4500 with a Dodge input and bearing retainer. The GM 4500 doesn't have the 5th gear nut problem and you can run a slew of GM transfer cases behind it. I'm running a round pattern, 32 spline GM NP205. Using the Dodge 4500 isn't the problem though, the quandry lies in trying to find an 89-93 Dodge NP205. They're rare as hen's teeth and twice the price! The GM 205 is easier to find, but still expensive as they only made those from 85-91 in 1-ton trucks, but the GM trucks were more plentiful than the Dodges.

It's awesome to be able to take a 92 model motor, 97 model adapter plate/bellhousing/clutch stuff, 98 model GM trans and an 85 GM t-case and bolt it all together like it was stock!

To run the 205 behind a 4500 you just need the short input 205 and an Advance Adapters spacer.

 

[burbn10]

Actually....it's easier to run a GM NV4500 with a Dodge input and bearing retainer. The GM 4500 doesn't have the 5th gear nut problem and you can run a slew of GM transfer cases behind it. I'm running a round pattern, 32 spline GM NP205. Using the Dodge 4500 isn't the problem though, the quandry lies in trying to find an 89-93 Dodge NP205. They're rare as hen's teeth and twice the price! The GM 205 is easier to find, but still expensive as they only made those from 85-91 in 1-ton trucks, but the GM trucks were more plentiful than the Dodges.

It's awesome to be able to take a 92 model motor, 97 model adapter plate/bellhousing/clutch stuff, 98 model GM trans and an 85 GM t-case and bolt it all together like it was stock!

To run the 205 behind a 4500 you just need the short input 205 and an Advance Adapters spacer.

I'd love to run a 5-speed manual, but I think I am going the route of a 4L80E. I'm 6'5" and I was driving my dad's '78 K20 the other day and realized how uncomfortable it is for me to operate a clutch with the available leg room. Still up in the air about it, but I'm leaning back towards auto... But I did get a GM NP205 the other day and I am waiting to hear back on a NP203 so I can run them doubled up behind whatever trans I use. Should be pretty awesome.

 

[67_C-30]

I scored a truck with great running VE pump engine yesterday and 5 speed yesterday. The old truck is rough, but I am going to use the Cummins for something.

 

[ODdave]

To run the 205 behind a 4500 you just need the short input 205 and an Advance Adapters spacer.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty Shure you mean long input as the short did not come in a round 6 bolt case.

 

[Croatan_Kid]

Ha...true! Hence the spacer



I'd strongly suggest running a 47rh before the 4L80E....controllers are epensive, adapters are pricey and it's just not really made to hold up to the low RPM torque these things can make. Then again, that'll throw a wrench in using a GM doubler, but a 23 spline Dodge 205 is a lot easier to find! They came behind 727s and 518s in 3/4 or 1-tons.

Of course, there are several people I know of that run them. If nothing else, I like not having to use adapters and search for other parts like that. My next Cummins swap will be a 2wd 3/4 ton Chevy with a 47rh and some go fast parts!

 

[dduncan]

Just food for thought, I don't think you will find that the stock axles will hold up to the torque of a cummins, even a relatively stock one... But if you don't rip on it, it might hold for awhile! I have a dodge cummins with a dyno'd rear wheel hp of 400 and torque of almost 800. The torque is ungodly.

 

[ODdave]

Just food for thought, I don't think you will find that the stock axles will hold up to the torque of a cummins, even a relatively stock one... But if you don't rip on it, it might hold for awhile! I have a dodge cummins with a dyno'd rear wheel hp of 400 and torque of almost 800. The torque is ungodly.

There not talking about a 1009 and the stock front axle in the 1008,1028 is the same as a dodge diesel and the rear is stronger than dodge Dana 70. They will be just fine.

 

[burbn10]

Ha...true! Hence the spacer



I'd strongly suggest running a 47rh before the 4L80E....controllers are epensive, adapters are pricey and it's just not really made to hold up to the low RPM torque these things can make. Then again, that'll throw a wrench in using a GM doubler, but a 23 spline Dodge 205 is a lot easier to find! They came behind 727s and 518s in 3/4 or 1-tons.

Of course, there are several people I know of that run them. If nothing else, I like not having to use adapters and search for other parts like that. My next Cummins swap will be a 2wd 3/4 ton Chevy with a 47rh and some go fast parts!

I just can't bring myself to run a Dodge auto transmission. They can't build a decent auto trans to save their lives... I'm planning to do a performance rebuild on the 4L80E. It'll hold up fine when it's done. I've just always had great luck with the TH400 and the 4L80E. I had a 600hp 496 in my dually and the stock 4L80E with a shift kit went 180K miles before it finally died via a blown trans cooler line. Just seems like every Dodge vehicle seems to have tranny problems before anything else... I would love to run a manual and still might yet. I'm also seeing if I can re-flash a factory computer from the 4L80E donor vehicle to run the trans. I'll let you know how that goes if I go the auto route.

 

[Hoolio]

I saw one done in a 1987 Chev Dually pick-up... Man what a lot of creative chopping to get that Cummins to fit..Bumping the firewall and creative chopping of the core support..I think I'll small block mine when the time comes..So sorry , but I'm not a real fanatic of the listless 6.2.. Even with 8,700 miles on a '86 truck, It's no fireball..Just basic cool transportation..

 

[Croatan_Kid]

I hear ya on the Dodge auto, but I think a stoutly built 47rh would hold up pretty good. Just sayin.

Good luck with the 4L80E stuff, hopefully you can figure something out.