Its cold outside lets talk Heaters, H81, H82, H83, etc.

[wheelspinner]

I finally tried to fire up my H81. Fan blows, pump coupling is intact and turning, spark at the ignition but no fuel pressure ( I just put 5 gallons in so I don't think it's out of fuel). Really could have used some heat. Guess I'll have to mess with it another time. Work travel calls now.

 

[Hard Head]

I sent over the drawings of the coupler to a local shop to make out of bronze. Just waiting to get the price. The more the less they cost. I also sent a new plastic one over for QA. I got my heater running and it did great for about 2 ours. A big puff of smoke and alarm and that ended the run time on the heater. Now after a couple minutes I see the pressure start to fluctuate, solenoid clicking and the trip light. Nice! I was so happy to have heat again in the shop. I have not checked anything in the combustion chamber yet, but it sounds like a K8 issues from previous comments. The circuit breaker is also tripping now. I will download the manuals and give it a go.

 

[Isaac-1]

On a side topic does anyone recognize this disconnected black wire dangling in front of the air return on my H82? My heater seems to work ok, so I assume it is not too important, perhaps the disconnected hour meter, per the manual instructions.

Also mine is now has a relay toggle on and off and fuel pressure jump up and down a number of times over a few seconds when the thermostat hits the return air cut off temperature, should there be something in the circuit that prevents rapid cycling like this?

 

[155mm]

While we are on this topic, does anyone know the specs for the pilot light bulb, mine is broken, is it 120VAC?

Somehow I missed this Issac, I am assuming you are talking about an H81?

 

[155mm]

I sent over the drawings of the coupler to a local shop to make out of bronze. Just waiting to get the price. The more the less they cost. I also sent a new plastic one over for QA. I got my heater running and it did great for about 2 ours. A big puff of smoke and alarm and that ended the run time on the heater. Now after a couple minutes I see the pressure start to fluctuate, solenoid clicking and the trip light. Nice! I was so happy to have heat again in the shop. I have not checked anything in the combustion chamber yet, but it sounds like a K8 issues from previous comments. The circuit breaker is also tripping now. I will download the manuals and give it a go.

Since it ran for a couple hours, I would check the flame sensor for correct adjustment, then clean the filter.
I sure might be interested in a brass adapter to have as a spare.

On a side topic does anyone recognize this disconnected black wire dangling in front of the air return on my H82? My heater seems to work ok, so I assume it is not too important, perhaps the disconnected hour meter, per the manual instructions.

Also mine is now has a relay toggle on and off and fuel pressure jump up and down a number of times over a few seconds when the thermostat hits the return air cut off temperature, should there be something in the circuit that prevents rapid cycling like this?

I would look at the rectifier to see that it has all 4 wires, the 2 wires on the back of the hour meter have plastic tips.

 

[Isaac-1]

Thanks will do as soon as it gets a bit warmer here since it is working now.

p.s. I was referring to the tripped reset indicator light on my H82, the bulb on mine is broken

 

[155mm]

Thanks will do as soon as it gets a bit warmer here since it is working now.

p.s. I was referring to the tripped reset indicator light on my H82, the bulb on mine is broken

I didnt find any way to get in the k8 relay, its a throw away.

 

[escobar420]

So here is my update. for my H82 to bad K8 Relplaced with one purchased on eBay.
I just messed around with the heater today,
I printed your wiring diagram and brought it with me.
I made sure the connectors were all on the right terminals with f1, f2 Etc.....and that none them were touching..
the other wires are connected with wire nuts red to red , orange to orange black to black white to white.
(couldn't take pics cause my phone died)
I next ran it on fan for 5 minutes Fuel pressure comes up to like 30, went and check there was an arc. (yes there was)
Flip it to Heat and BAM trips circuit breaker
I disconnected the entire metal wire harness for the k8 relay and tried to flip to heat while fan blowing and nothing happens (fan continues to blow)
Reconnected the wire harness make sure connection is secure and everything tight.
Flip to Heat - Trips circuit breaker.

What do I do next???

 

[Isaac-1]

Escobar, do you mean the circuit breaker that provides power to your outlet, or the safety reset button on the K8 relay on H82?

On a side point I was working on my H82 today also, it had developed a fault so that when the thermostat reached set point to switch heat on or off, the heat control / pressure gauge would oscillate crazily on and off multiple times per second for 3-5 seconds before settling on being on or off. Eventually tripping the safety cut off. Replacing the thermostat control unit and the return side temperature sensor with a one I bought on ebay a couple of weeks ago seems to have solved the problem, it now reaches set point and switches on or off and has about a 3 degree swing between on and off set points. The new control unit from ebay is listed as

H82 HEATER CONTROL 8720694-1 and was priced at under $20, best money I have spent on this heater so far.

p.s. this new controller seems to be a newer revision of the controller that was in my H82, has Phillips head screws vs flat heads on the terminal strip, etc.

 

[escobar420]

Escobar, do you mean the circuit breaker that provides power to your outlet, or the safety reset button on the K8 relay on H82?

On a side point I was working on my H82 today also, it had developed a fault so that when the thermostat reached set point to switch heat on or off, the heat control / pressure gauge would oscillate crazily on and off multiple times per second for 3-5 seconds before settling on being on or off. Eventually tripping the safety cut off. Replacing the thermostat control unit and the return side temperature sensor with a one I bought on ebay a couple of weeks ago seems to have solved the problem, it now reaches set point and switches on or off and has about a 3 degree swing between on and off set points. The new control unit from ebay is listed as

H82 HEATER CONTROL 8720694-1 and was priced at under $20, best money I have spent on this heater so far.

p.s. this new controller seems to be a newer revision of the controller that was in my H82, has Phillips head screws vs flat heads on the terminal strip, etc.

I meant that the circuit breaker that provides power to outlet keeps tripping. its on a 20 Amp breaker (which always had no issue running the heater prior to the "K8 Red light of death").

Last night i re-wired the original K8 and the result is it doesn't trip the circuit any more,
but still nothing happens with its flipped to "Heat" - fuel pressure stays around 20-30psi. Red light comes on k* - No Alarm. ( not sure if it died but it doesn't sound any more"

Isaac, I also purchased the heater control because of its price,....do you think replacing this component will have any effect on the K8 Relay.

 

[escobar420]

I had time to install the ‘new’ k8 on a spare heater, it worked as designed so i am at a loss why it didn’t work for yours unless there are other problems. Verify that the spade connectors are not touching, i had issues with them wanting to twist and touch while tightening.

View attachment 713710View attachment 713711

155MM i still cant get over how you purchased the same replacement relay and it worked for you and not me!

I'm sure everything is wired correctly. - i even reinstalled the original k8 and no tripping the breaker on heat mode.

I'm at a loss.

 

[155mm]

There is such thing as bad new parts, and these are NOS so there is a higher chance of getting nonfunctional parts. If you have the funds available, I would order another new K8, but I would send the seller a pm letting him know that the first one was bad. He might offer a better deal on the second if he knows the first one was DOA.

 

[escobar420]

There is such thing as bad new parts, and these are NOS so there is a higher chance of getting nonfunctional parts. If you have the funds available, I would order another new K8, but I would send the seller a pm letting him know that the first one was bad. He might offer a better deal on the second if he knows the first one was DOA.

I literally already did that,

I tried the second k8 relay last night and confirmed the same results

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-EAS-Sy...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

i will be returning the second one.

 

[155mm]

maybe you need to send me one of your k8 so we can verify your heater isnt eating them. is your hour meter disconnected? if not, unplug it and the rectifier

 

[escobar420]

maybe you need to send me one of your k8 so we can verify your heater isnt eating them. is your hour meter disconnected? if not, unplug it and the rectifier

I tried unplugging the hour meter last night for the first time no effect....what is the rectifier again?

Is there a way to use an electrical test meter to determine whats tripping up the circuit? can a regular boiler guy possibly figure this out?

ill send you the k8 if you want to try it out.

 

[155mm]

its mounted on the inside, next to the switches.

the only way i know is with a clamp over dmm that has amp and put it on max hold. then its just a process of clamping over each wire on the junction block to find the one that is pulling the amps.

has that breaker been tripped alot of times? could the breaker be 'tired'?

i think a boiler guy could figure it out, its all the same concept and parts just put together differently.

 

[Isaac-1]

After partly dissecting my old temperature control thermostat (the one with flat head only screws on the terminal strip not the new style one with the combo Phillips / flat screws). I am not impressed with its construction, the circuit board looks like something from a roll your own board design out of a 1970's hobbyist magazine, there was obvious trace patching done with a soldering iron due to poor float tinning, and corrosion was visible on a number of the solder joints, there was no protective coating of any kind. I have only seen the back side of the board as the terminal strip must be unsoldered to get to the front side, but based on what I saw it looks fairly simple possibly with one IC in a DIP package. I have not dissected one of the newer control thermostats, but based on what I saw in the old style one I would encourage everyone to change them out, under the assumption that the newer style ones can't be worse.

 

[155mm]

After partly dissecting my old temperature control thermostat (the one with flat head only screws on the terminal strip not the new style one with the combo Phillips / flat screws). I am not impressed with its construction, the circuit board looks like something from a roll your own board design out of a 1970's hobbyist magazine, there was obvious trace patching done with a soldering iron due to poor float tinning, and corrosion was visible on a number of the solder joints, there was no protective coating of any kind. I have only seen the back side of the board as the terminal strip must be unsoldered to get to the front side, but based on what I saw it looks fairly simple possibly with one IC in a DIP package. I have not dissected one of the newer control thermostats, but based on what I saw in the old style one I would encourage everyone to change them out, under the assumption that the newer style ones can't be worse.

photos

 

[Isaac-1]

I will try to get back to that project and post some tomorrow, I had planned to take some but got side tracked when I saw a soldering iron was needed for full disassembly.

 

[Isaac-1]

Here is a photo of the back side of the circuit board, pay particular attention to the traces in the upper right corner, the corrosion around the screw hole, etc.