Lack of power/smoke

[simp5782]

I am new to the forum and just purchased a 62 m-62 that was an ex forest service fire truck with wyoming. It had the contential gas engine i was told from the guy i purchased it from but had had a hole in the block when he got it. He replaced it with an LDT-465 not sure of the year, hours, or miles on it and neither was he. he added a mack turbo not sure what number. He added an electric pump and added another filter right after the pump. He redid all the wiring and other what nots as well.

After i purchased it i drove it the 40 miles to the city for the night and it ran great no issues or anything plenty of power on hills. the next morning i drove around 90 miles heading home and started having issues. It started cutting out under WOT and puffs of blue smoke. the night before and the morning it rolls coal like a freight train in all gears until i get to around 2500rpms in 5th. then on WOT itll roll it again, but no blue smoke at all. But it did smoke excessively on startup until it got warm.

after the blue smoke started going up a 6% grade it really started cutting out bad and was only going like 15mph up the pass. after getting down on the lower ground it ran great again. I refueled and added Howe's like I had done the night before. after driving for around 40 miles it started cutting out again and just not having power at all and killing every mosquito within a 20mile radius. it just smokes very excessively. he said he had the pump turned up but maybe its way to much.

i finally got to my destination and i noticed it had a fuel leak right near the fuel lines at the ip. i took the ip lines off and cleaned them all out and cleaned the ip threat holes to make sure it just didnt have dirt in it. the fuel leak is fixed. purged the air out and still very excessive smoke. and lack of power. it also has a **** of a tapping sound in 5th doing around 2000- 2750 rpms like a lifter. it does it all gears at the high rpms but it is not that loud with it parked in neutral and i revved it up. the oil level is good in it and no obvious leaks.

Any suggestions on where to start?

He said he had replaced all the filters when he installed the extra one and the electric pump. I added good clean #2 diesel at both fillups and Howes diesel additive as well.

 

[Capt.Marion]

First off, BLUE smoke is motor oil getting into the engine. BLACK smoke is unburnt diesel fuel... if it was indeed blue smoke, it sounds like you've got some trouble on your hands.

Were you running straight diesel, or did you have some WMO mixed in? I see that you added straight No. 2, but can you vouch for what was in the tanks before?

Secondly--I'd hope you weren't running it at 2750 RPMs. The LDT-465 (which is the 2 1/2 ton multifuel, BTW--the multifuel that is supposed to be in the 5-ton is the LDS-465), is governed at 2600. It could very likely be that your tach is simply reading too high.

You could definitely start by turning down the fuel and seeing if that helps at all.


Also, I know people are going to ask, so be prepared to start posting pictures, especially of the engine compartment.

Congrats on your new truck, and let's see if we can't get this figured out!

 

[73m819]

Hi, is your m62 still a wrecker, if so please add to the wrecker poll

welcome, not a multi person, but the blue smoke is oil, if black, fuel

 

[simp5782]

Here are some pics of the truck. Its an M-61 sorry not M-62. typo. I am unloading some videos to youtube and will post the links. took some videos of the idling smoking and the revving and the miss. I opened the drain valve on the extra filter he put in place and just brown/black diesel came out of it. So im thinking my driving losened things up in the tank and now the electric pump he installed is being restricted and so are the filters. Where do i find the changover for the filters for the ldt? the one he added is a detroit common cartridge I believe.

Videos are below:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emxkZLQCgX0[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m90InQeoBUc[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSx9bfZ30Zo[/media]

 

[91W350]

It will not cost you anything to pull the fuel filter and see if it is plugged again. The fuel that ran across your finger looked really dark, you may have an algae problem, which will plug filters like crazy. Have you looked in the tank with a flashlight to see how clear the fuel looks? If it looks dark green or black, you probably have a clean up chore ahead of you. Sounds like you are running out fuel under load. Glen

 

[simp5782]

I opened the drain ports on the 2 filters on the truck and unscrewed them all the way out and nothing came out at all. if it was starving for fuel under load, why would it throw so much black smoke u cant see anything behind u?


i have my own small scrap removal buisness and currently i am running my 85 F350 with a 6.9 and 4spd with 4.10s infront of my 25' GN and hauling 5 to 12 tons of scrap metal and equipment 75miles one way is starting to get to it. It does average around 9mpg loaded and unloaded all day burning round 45 gallons during the 500miles of driving a day. It is really taking a toll on the U joints on the 6.9 pulling doubles and being extremely heavy. So the m61 is going to be taking over the heavy hauling duties like for my 29,000lb JD 120 excavator. So im going to need it to be useful in the everyday role.

Does anyone know what the GVWR is for the M-61? DOT here in montana is very weird on their laws. If your vehicle has a GVWR of more than 26,000lbs you have to have a Class A and B cdl. Except like for my f350 I can have a GVWR of 50,000lbs which is whatever u want the DMV to put on the registration. you dont have to have a cdl. Its retarded. Have to do the driving test as well.

 

[jsthnt@gmail.com]

I am having the same problem. I am looking forword to see what you find out. I think mine has to do in part to the wind in Nebraska, but Wyoming should have more wind then Nebraska. I still need to put a turbo on mine too. but I think there is anouther ploblem which sounds like your solution when youfind it will help me.

 

[Capt.Marion]

I opened the drain ports on the 2 filters on the truck and unscrewed them all the way out and nothing came out at all. if it was starving for fuel under load, why would it throw so much black smoke u cant see anything behind u?


i have my own small scrap removal buisness and currently i am running my 85 F350 with a 6.9 and 4spd with 4.10s infront of my 25' GN and hauling 5 to 12 tons of scrap metal and equipment 75miles one way is starting to get to it. It does average around 9mpg loaded and unloaded all day burning round 45 gallons during the 500miles of driving a day. It is really taking a toll on the U joints on the 6.9 pulling doubles and being extremely heavy. So the m61 is going to be taking over the heavy hauling duties like for my 29,000lb JD 120 excavator. So im going to need it to be useful in the everyday role.

Does anyone know what the GVWR is for the M-61? DOT here in montana is very weird on their laws. If your vehicle has a GVWR of more than 26,000lbs you have to have a Class A and B cdl. Except like for my f350 I can have a GVWR of 50,000lbs which is whatever u want the DMV to put on the registration. you dont have to have a cdl. Its retarded. Have to do the driving test as well.

Just a heads up: this truck is no wonderful towing rig. With 5th gear being direct drive, your top speed is 45 MPH, which makes 75 miles a much longer drive, especially if you have any hills, too. However, it's a heck of a lot more fun than any ole civvy truck!

As for your video--it sounds to me like you are running on only 5 cylinders.When you put your hand over the exhaust, does the exhaust feels rough, and not a constant, smooth rhythm?

When that engine was put in the deuce and a half, there was both a primarily fuel filter, and the two secondaries (which are located in the cans hanging upside down on the side of the block, behind the oil filters). Is there a primary fuel filter mounted at the front right (passenger side) corner of the engine bay? On the deuce, it hangs down through the splash guard so you can access it from below the truck. I can't tell whether you have one in your truck or not.

Regardless, what I would recommend is dumping the fuel from your tank (painful, I know), replacing that first fuel filter that guy's got on there and filling your tank up part-way with fresh fuel (25 gallons or so) and throw in a bottle of algae treatment (which is what your brown fuel looks like to me). You can grab a bottle at NAPA or whatever autoparts store you have. That should clean up whatever gunk is in the tank and fuel lines (hopefully). You'll probably want to have more of those filters on hand, as they will most likely get gunked up quickly as crap starts coming out of the tank.

I'd recommend leafing through the M39-series (which your truck falls into) operator's manual, and some of the other manuals, here: JATONKA's M54 series TM download page. There's a section with the weights and capacities, towards the front of the operator's manual. For your M61, your GVWR should be roughly 40,000 lbs. The GCVW should be 70,000 lbs. You'll definitely need what should amount to a Commercial License for this.

 

[Jake0147]

Boy, that's not a good color of smoke... Sounds like a dead miss from here. You've got atomized but unburnt diesel fuel, and you've got hot but unburnt oil...

In the third video about 25 to 30 seconds in, see the "puff" that kind of associates with the engine's miss? For reference, that's a "once per stroke cycle" puff...
Now go look up underneath the turbo at the draft tube, see if there's a siimilarly timed "puff" up there.

 

[M813A1]

It almost sound as if he has an injector knock maybe one of the injectors is clogged and is not spraying correctly !! I believe that would also give a blueish smoke in the exhaust . If it was unburnt oil his oil levels would drop in the crankcase and the slubber tube would be very oilly and dripping out of it ?? Also the blueish smoke can come from worn valve guide seals !! Or a turbo seals going out !!

 

[R Racing]

it defenetly sounds like you may have a dead cylinder to me. did you pull your breather and see if its huffing ? if it is could be a cracked piston. also check your antifreeze level could be sucking some as well.

 

[simp5782]

It ran fine for the 90miles and then after i hit some hard bumps the problems started. I am thinking it loosened things off the bottom of the tank and then this all started happening along with the fuel leak. I pumped the tank out today since it had around 50gallons in it I am almost down to the bottom

below are some pics of what came out. and as far as the algae stuff what brand is it? Noone up here in Montana has anything that says specific algae remover on it. Other than a powerservice fuel and tank cleaner but it doesnt say algae on it. Just contaminants.the fuel is black and can be and has a really bad odor to it

I am going to install a 141 micron inline filter before the elctric pump. replace the 10 micron in the one he installed and replace both the primary and secondary ones. I am almost down to the bottom of the tank and since the algae stuff isnt really found here I thought about just unbolting the tank and taking it to a friend of mine to boil it out. he will probably do it free of charge.


Should i try running the cleaner and fresh diesel and see if it improves? or just go ahead and remove the lines and injectors and have them cleaned at one time.

 

[simp5782]

I installed a new filter adapter from napa and got rid of the one he installed with a 10 micron spin on. ran the pump till the clear diesel came out. and then installed it all. fired up. still missing. having a hard time removing the primary and secondary filter canisters I cant get them loose. Also i cracked the fuel lines at the injectors the rear 3 cylinders spitted out fuel after 1 loose turn and tightened them back down. the front 3 however I could unscrew them all the way and none of them leaked any fuel. not to sure whats going on there. I am not very familiar with these engines so im just going off what ive delt with in the past. all the injectors are tapping and there is no back pressure out of the radiator or oil filler cap.

I also have 3 lines leaking at the pump. unscrewed them cleaned them up and screwed them back in and tightened them alot and they still leak any suggestions?

 

[mightymanx]

I installed a new filter adapter from napa and got rid of the one he installed with a 10 micron spin on. ran the pump till the clear diesel came out. and then installed it all. fired up. still missing. having a hard time removing the primary and secondary filter canisters I cant get them loose. Also i cracked the fuel lines at the injectors the rear 3 cylinders spitted out fuel after 1 loose turn and tightened them back down. the front 3 however I could unscrew them all the way and none of them leaked any fuel. not to sure whats going on there. I am not very familiar with these engines so im just going off what ive delt with in the past. all the injectors are tapping and there is no back pressure out of the radiator or oil filler cap.

I also have 3 lines leaking at the pump. unscrewed them cleaned them up and screwed them back in and tightened them alot and they still leak any suggestions?

Do the 3 leaking lines at the pump go to the 3 fwd injectors?

What I am thinking is that it might be pumping to a dead head and causing the leak. I wuld most definatly change all the other filters before you do much else in the trouble shooting process. If the crap in the tank cloged your first filter it probably clogged the other 3 as well.

There should be 3 filters 1 under the alternator and the 2 canisters by the steering collum you can open the bleeder fitting on top of the filter block and see what comes out of it. but I would change them no matter what.

 

[Capt.Marion]

I can't recall the brand on the algae treatment. If I'm not mistaken it was called "BIO" something. I know they had it at NAPA, but I can't find it online.

It seems like you may be having injector pump/IP hydraulic head problems.

 

[simp5782]

So i replaced both of the filters on the side of the engine. There is no primary filter under the alternator. Im sure since this motor was swapped into the truck he ommited it. It still has a miss. Pulled the lines and blew them all out and had fuel coming out of all of the nozzles at the injector with them loose except cyl 1. unscrew it all the way and it will not even come out of the injector end at all. If i spray starting fluid into the air filter while running it smooths out and does not have a miss. So after loosening the #1 metal line at the IP it leaked but the rpms on the truck did not change between tightening and loosening no RPM change at all. So either the line or the injector is clogged. I pulled all the injectors out of the truck and checked the return lines and they are clean as well. The injectors are single hole on the tip and are pretty black. I took them to a diesel shop here in town and NOONE around here can test, clean, or rebuild them. Closest one is around 400 mi away. So I just ordered new injectors and #1 line from Memphis equipment so I should have them tomorrow to put in. and we will see how it is running after that.

 

[Capt.Marion]

Awesome. Sounds like you're right on track for how you should be testing this. Thanks for keeping us posted--I look forward to finding out the outcome.

 

[camp9]

You got a lot of good suggestions, but my guess is if it aint the filters, I'm thinking a stuck injector.

 

[Gamagoat1]

That product is called BIO CLEAN by Power Services. It's an antimicrobial agent and does an incredible job at killing the bacteria and microorganisms that grow in fuel .
But.....it aint cheap. NAPA carries it or any place that carries Power Service products can order it.

 

[simp5782]

Yeah oreilly up here has it in their catalog but cant order it. I got some PFS stuff from napa thats suppose to help with it. Drained the tank and added 10gal of it with some Howes and the PFS going to run it thru tomorrow after the new injectors and see what it does.

its just hard to get algae stuff up here when its -30 below 8months out of the year.