LDS VS LDT and the real differences

[rustystud]

Well I got ahold of a guy who owns and runs the "Head Games " Oliver tractor . It is a Hercules just like our LDT-465 and he runs Alcohol in it. He just had an aluminum head made up for it. He is willing to give me tips on building up an engine that will reliably run. The first thing he said was to of course pump up the pump ! Watch the pyro though. The second was to go with the Bosch 100 injection pump, and if that was unavailable to go with a "Stanadyne" injection pump. He said if you went with the Stanadyne you would have to change out the front cover though. He forgot to mention the model number. Hopefully he will be answering more of my questions in another email. One of the problems facing tractor pullers with this engine is the back of the motor tends to blow out with too much horse-power. I don't plan on making that much horse-power ! I told him my goal was 180HP reliably . We'll see what happens.
Thanks JasonS for the suggestion of going to the tractor pullers !

 

[JasonS]

Well I got ahold of a guy who owns and runs the "Head Games " Oliver tractor . It is a Hercules just like our LDT-465 and he runs Alcohol in it. He just had an aluminum head made up for it. He is willing to give me tips on building up an engine that will reliably run. The first thing he said was to of course pump up the pump ! Watch the pyro though. The second was to go with the Bosch 100 injection pump, and if that was unavailable to go with a "Stanadyne" injection pump. He said if you went with the Stanadyne you would have to change out the front cover though. He forgot to mention the model number. Hopefully he will be answering more of my questions in another email. One of the problems facing tractor pullers with this engine is the back of the motor tends to blow out with too much horse-power. I don't plan on making that much horse-power ! I told him my goal was 180HP reliably . We'll see what happens.
Thanks JasonS for the suggestion of going to the tractor pullers !

Thanks for the accolades but it is YOU who stepped up and actually did it.

 

[m-35tom]

190 hp is 400 ft lbs at 2500 rpm. if you just turn up the fuel and set the high idle at 2550, how far away do you think you are?? what i am saying is that i think you are already there and reliability is limiting the rpm. put one on a dyno and see.
tom

 

[JasonS]

190 hp is 400 ft lbs at 2500 rpm. if you just turn up the fuel and set the high idle at 2550, how far away do you think you are?? what i am saying is that i think you are already there and reliability is limiting the rpm. put one on a dyno and see.
tom

I couldn't agree more. If you have 10psi of boost, you have "LDS power". That simple.

 

[m-35tom]

I couldn't agree more. If you have 10psi of boost, you have "LDS power". That simple.

well, i would say 14 psi as 9 psi is stock setting for the LDT. and max torque may be at a lower rpm, probably about 1900, sometimes HP is not what gets the job done.

 

[JasonS]

well, i would say 14 psi as 9 psi is stock setting for the LDT. and max torque may be at a lower rpm, probably about 1900, sometimes HP is not what gets the job done.

Figure 41 on page 34 of the LDS-465-1 Troubleshooting Manual states 18-20" Hg manifold pressure at full load and 2400 rpm with diesel. 20" Hg equates to 9.823 psi. Where do you get your numbers from?

 

[m-35tom]

well, i'll have to look again, i thought i got it from the LDT engine specs as the field expedient way to set the fuel rate, so 14 is even better!! i may remember to look again, i may not, as i am no longer in control of what i remember!

 

[JasonS]

See, I really believe that most folks have more horsepower than they think.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I am at a disadvantage, I only have a pyro in my truck, there is no boost gauge. I know I have enough power to put-put down the road just fine though.

 

[Jeepsinker]

I'd much rather have a pyro only than just the boost gauge that I have. But the boost gauge was only $20 at Advance auto parts....

 

[rustystud]

190 hp is 400 ft lbs at 2500 rpm. if you just turn up the fuel and set the high idle at 2550, how far away do you think you are?? what i am saying is that i think you are already there and reliability is limiting the rpm. put one on a dyno and see.
tom

That's why I want the tech tips from this guy. He's built an engine that can handle the power. Though I'm not going for the crazy power he has.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Reliable is the key for me. I have seen many motors break and it always makes me shudder when I think of going on long road trips. Might just start bringing a spare motor with me wherever I go.

I learned from another member that a M101 makes a great "crumple zone" for when civi drivers don't pay attention!

 

[JasonS]

That's why I want the tech tips from this guy. He's built an engine that can handle the power. Though I'm not going for the crazy power he has.

Anything new?

 

[rustystud]

Anything new?

Yes, though it won't help most of us. The engine he uses is a complete billet block specially built with roller lifters and cam, and a couple of high performance turbos. He did give me some good advice on a basic build though. He recommends the newer 12 point rod bolts, full groove bearings ( most bearings have a half groove in them so it takes two sets of bearings to make up a full groove) , balancing the crank and rods and pistons and a new IHC turbo. I have the model written down somewhere. He also recommends a new cam regrind to modern specs. He gave me the name of a company he uses ( also written down somewhere ! ) The cranks in the multifuel engines are super stout, in fact he still uses one though highly modified. So there you have it. With these mods he feels we could get around 200HP to 250HP . He also recommended a newer injector pump by Bosch but if we went that route we would loose the multifuel ability. The newer pumps cannot handle the higher viscosity of engine oil. If we went with the newer pump we could increase power to closer to 300HP. Personally I would stay as stock as possible with just going with a reground cam and some balancing and bearings. 200HP sounds good to me.
I forgot to add his engine makes over 5000HP !!! It doesn't run on diesel though .
Forgot to add new head studs. He uses "ARP" studs and bolts .

 

[rustystud]

I got the info I left out of the previous post. The turbo is a "3LM466" from IHC. The injection pump is a "Bosch model 100" . The cam grinding company is "Vogel Manufacturing". Some other things mentioned was that the engine blocks made by Hercules for the military had an extremely high nickel content and where physically heavier then there standard engine. The nickel made these engines very strong and long lasting.
The block design by Hercules was called the "Fritz Winter" block. The crankshafts where made out of 4140 steel . All and all, these engines are very well built and with just a minimum of upgrades will make very good "modern engines" . No need to stuff a "Cummins" or "Detroit" or "Duramax" into our trucks, at least as long as rebuild parts hold out !

 

[m-35tom]

and i'll bet he is not using the old poor flowing heads we have. we just need 4 valve heads for at least 80 hp

 

[rustystud]

and i'll bet he is not using the old poor flowing heads we have. we just need 4 valve heads for at least 80 hp

You are correct, he is using specially built heads with roller rockers, but we do not need to build up an engine like his (5000HP is way to much for a road deuce !!! ) . The ideas he gave me where for a reliable engine, that would be a daily driver. I haven't contacted "Vogel Manufacturing" yet on a price for a reground cam, but I'm sure it would not be more then $500.00 . The balancing of the crank, rods and pistons should also be under $500.00 . That leaves buying two sets of main bearings ( for full groove bearings) and new piston rings plus the gasket set. I also asked about line boring the block, but he said it would be a waste of money unless the engine had seen something terrible happen to the bottom end. The blocks as I mentioned are extremely strong. The new Head studs by "ARP" would also be on the list , as would the new 12 point rod bolts.

 

[Floridianson]

There would be a lot of money spent on that build. Seems like you would need to make a intake that would do away with the hot water flow and add in up front intercooler. Myself since motors are sitting around and running in the yard I just put in a pyro and turn up the fuel in what ever truck I am driving. Maybe it's just me but just to make the truck a little quicker and gain no top end because of the gearing as said I will just take what I get with a bad azz tweeking.

 

[JasonS]

You are correct, he is using specially built heads with roller rockers, but we do not need to build up an engine like his (5000HP is way to much for a road deuce !!! ) . The ideas he gave me where for a reliable engine, that would be a daily driver. I haven't contacted "Vogel Manufacturing" yet on a price for a reground cam, but I'm sure it would not be more then $500.00 . The balancing of the crank, rods and pistons should also be under $500.00 . That leaves buying two sets of main bearings ( for full groove bearings) and new piston rings plus the gasket set. I also asked about line boring the block, but he said it would be a waste of money unless the engine had seen something terrible happen to the bottom end. The blocks as I mentioned are extremely strong. The new Head bolts or studs by "ARP" would also be on the list , as would the new 12 point rod bolts.

I suspect that the most important mod and most relevant for a low rpm, low horsepower engine are the 12 pt rod bolts.

 

[rustystud]

I suspect that the most important mod and most relevant for a low rpm, low horsepower engine are the 12 pt rod bolts.

The rod bolts and maybe the "ARP" head studs . Plus the reground cam.