gimpyrobb
dumpsterlandingfromorbit!
- 27,785
- 747
- 113
- Location
- Cincy Ohio
The D turbo flows more air(not much) than the C. The D turbo also has better seals and bearings.
-
Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!
LDS VS LDT and the real differences
- Thread starter jasonn
- Start date
Heath_h49008
New member
- 1,557
- 101
- 0
- Location
- Kalamazoo/Mich
Are the improvements to the D enough to justify swapping out the C? I know some guys really want the C for the whistle... I could care less. (I'm going to muffle her anyway)
Also, the advance in timing from LDT to LDS, combined with tuning the main fuel and droop screw on the LDT to LDS specs would seem safe.
So, I'm planning my experiment for this spring. I will use an unmodified LDT with a C turbo.
We don't have a dyno, but I can get 1/4 mile times for baseline, and get new timeslips after each modification. (Nice to have a local dragstip, ne?)
If I then retime the pump to LDS spec and adjust the pressures at 1600&2600 to spec using the LDS troubleshooting manual, and retest... we should be able to get a change, and with the timeslips we should be able to calculate exactly how much horsepower/torque improvement it made.
Does that sound reasonable?
Also, the advance in timing from LDT to LDS, combined with tuning the main fuel and droop screw on the LDT to LDS specs would seem safe.
So, I'm planning my experiment for this spring. I will use an unmodified LDT with a C turbo.
We don't have a dyno, but I can get 1/4 mile times for baseline, and get new timeslips after each modification. (Nice to have a local dragstip, ne?)
If I then retime the pump to LDS spec and adjust the pressures at 1600&2600 to spec using the LDS troubleshooting manual, and retest... we should be able to get a change, and with the timeslips we should be able to calculate exactly how much horsepower/torque improvement it made.
Does that sound reasonable?
abh3
New member
- 236
- 3
- 0
- Location
- Florala, Al
You must have a different kind of Deuce than I do if you need a dragstrip to run the crap out one, I suspect I could street race to my hearts content with mine but as long as I was in a 55mph zone the cops wouldn't notice even if they were sitting on the side of the road! 
Joking aside, wouldn't the variability of the horribly slow shifting negate the accuracy of the time slips? Talk about demanding some concentration...
Joking aside, wouldn't the variability of the horribly slow shifting negate the accuracy of the time slips? Talk about demanding some concentration...
Heath_h49008
New member
- 1,557
- 101
- 0
- Location
- Kalamazoo/Mich
LOL... True.You must have a different kind of Deuce than I do if you need a dragstrip to run the crap out one, I suspect I could street race to my hearts content with mine but as long as I was in a 55mph zone the cops wouldn't notice even if they were sitting on the side of the road!
Joking aside, wouldn't the variability of the horribly slow shifting negate the accuracy of the time slips? Talk about demanding some concentration...
I just can't think of a more exact way to get accurate numbers than nice laser trapped timeslip. But you have a point about the shifting being a variable. Time of acceleration from say 1500rpm to 2600rpm in a single gear would work as well, but getting an accurate number would be hard. 3 trials and take the average? mod then repeat... but after that I would need a different formula than the simple ET = 6.290 (weight/hp)1/3
abh3
New member
- 236
- 3
- 0
- Location
- Florala, Al
The key might be in focussing on making consistent, deliberate shifts again and again instead of trying to run the lowest time, like bracket racing... Be prepared to catch some guff from the regulars at the strip, LOL!!
Heath_h49008
New member
- 1,557
- 101
- 0
- Location
- Kalamazoo/Mich
To paraphrase Bender "They can kiss my giant metal a55"
jwaller
Active member
- 3,724
- 19
- 38
- Location
- Columbia, SC
I first though of trying to time a difference in my truck when I did the mods.
so what I did was take shifting out of it.
I start in 4th gear at 1500rpms and time how long it takes to get to 2500rpms. always use the same piece of road and try to keep the temps the same. Thats how I did it when I put on the new turbo and after I did the water inj mod.
so what I did was take shifting out of it.
I start in 4th gear at 1500rpms and time how long it takes to get to 2500rpms. always use the same piece of road and try to keep the temps the same. Thats how I did it when I put on the new turbo and after I did the water inj mod.
If you have an android smart phone, I know there are apps that can measure your acceleration, and although I wouldn't trust one as a dyno by itself, you could absolutely use it to compare a before and after.
Sadly I dont know the apps name, I would search "Dyno"
Sadly I dont know the apps name, I would search "Dyno"
abh3
New member
- 236
- 3
- 0
- Location
- Florala, Al
That's a good idea. Aren't there some fancier GPSs that will measure acceleration, etc? Not sure how that'll translate into HP change though. Higher math may be involved... 
gimpyrobb
dumpsterlandingfromorbit!
- 27,785
- 747
- 113
- Location
- Cincy Ohio
Wow this thread has really turned to sh1tt.
Flyingvan911
Well-known member
- 4,709
- 158
- 63
- Location
- Kansas City, MO
It would be worth the money for a dyno. I wouldn't trust a smart phone for accurate data. There's a lot more data available from a dyno.
Heath_h49008
New member
- 1,557
- 101
- 0
- Location
- Kalamazoo/Mich
Really? The thread is asking the question of what the differences are. We are trying to isolate the ones that matter, from the ones that don't.
If you think you have a better way to find out what the hp/lb-ft differences are with each step of the transformation... by all means, enlighten us. I don't know about you, but I certainly don't have a dyno at my disposal. So, if you have a better idea, speak up.
No higher math needed from your smart phone data. It will give you a number that it understands your HP to be. This number would be inacurate, but thats ok. We would want to do three "pulls" and then take the average score.
I would start by adjusting the fuel screw to exactly what the TM says it should be, at which point we KNOW what the HP should be for the engine. Write that down, and compare it with the inaccurate number your smart phone gives you. Off by 10 or off by 75 doesn't matter. We are only using the smart phone to set up the algebra to compare percent of increase. We can then plug that percentage in with the stock horse power, and we can come close. At very least we could understand percentage of improvement.
Example:
a = The recorded horsepower amount for this engine, as shown in the TM.
b = The average result on the first test (Truck bone stock, adjusted back to original boost and EGT)
c = The average result on the second test (Modified, tested on the same stretch of road)
r = The percentage of increase
x = The approximate new horsepower
c/b=r
ra=x
That look right?
This wouldn't work with say, a 69 Camaro, because at a stock tune, it will still have less than stock horsepower. When we are returning the boost and EGTs to stock numbers, (And working with engines that have about 30,000 miles) your horsepower will be **** near to what it was the engine was dyno tested originally in the 60s.
I would start by adjusting the fuel screw to exactly what the TM says it should be, at which point we KNOW what the HP should be for the engine. Write that down, and compare it with the inaccurate number your smart phone gives you. Off by 10 or off by 75 doesn't matter. We are only using the smart phone to set up the algebra to compare percent of increase. We can then plug that percentage in with the stock horse power, and we can come close. At very least we could understand percentage of improvement.
Example:
a = The recorded horsepower amount for this engine, as shown in the TM.
b = The average result on the first test (Truck bone stock, adjusted back to original boost and EGT)
c = The average result on the second test (Modified, tested on the same stretch of road)
r = The percentage of increase
x = The approximate new horsepower
c/b=r
ra=x
That look right?
This wouldn't work with say, a 69 Camaro, because at a stock tune, it will still have less than stock horsepower. When we are returning the boost and EGTs to stock numbers, (And working with engines that have about 30,000 miles) your horsepower will be **** near to what it was the engine was dyno tested originally in the 60s.
Heath_h49008
New member
- 1,557
- 101
- 0
- Location
- Kalamazoo/Mich
The problem is, the phones accelerometer isn't reliable, sensitive, or consistent enough... I know mine isn't.
gimpyrobb
dumpsterlandingfromorbit!
- 27,785
- 747
- 113
- Location
- Cincy Ohio
So many threads start off to find out ONE THING, such as this one. Now you are talking about water injection and gps-dynos. Lots of off topic crap and conjecture. I understand you might want to discuss these things, and the OP abandoned the thread, but that does not mean the thread is on course or even usefull anymore.
EDIT:
This is not an attck on anyone in this thread, just pointing out facts. I felt I should add this as so many people get their feelings hurt so easy here.
Heath_h49008
New member
- 1,557
- 101
- 0
- Location
- Kalamazoo/Mich
I just checked back 3 pages and didn't see me mention the water injection... I talk about it enough in that thread I may have slipped and polluted this one. If so, my apologies.
I'm going to try getting the baseline, and then follow the LDS troubleshooting manual with my LDT. That's all. Baseline, change, test... repeat until I can get an answer for each point raised in this thread.
I know the OP was looking for post count and maybe a simple answer, but this kind of puzzle is what I enjoy.
rizzo
Active member
- 2,841
- 8
- 38
- Location
- Port Huron, MI
unless you have several charts, graphs, multi-angle pictures and eye witmess testimony, I am not sure if that information will be conclusive enough. Maybe we can get the senate to have a hearing?
Blackmagic94
Member
- 468
- 9
- 18
- Location
- Oro Valley/AZ
What is the stock vs stock boost difference. The fact the lds runs a larger turbo should indicate the power difference alone.
Any one have specs on the turbos or a compressor island maps?
Any one have specs on the turbos or a compressor island maps?
- 26,247
- 1,168
- 113
- Location
- NY
Might be a good time to step back, and read more.
With same turbo on either ldt or lds, an lds make more power.
A well setup(tuned) ldt wil make enough power to make you feel like you have an lds.
Try reading the info in the troublshooting the LDS TM.
With same turbo on either ldt or lds, an lds make more power.
A well setup(tuned) ldt wil make enough power to make you feel like you have an lds.
Try reading the info in the troublshooting the LDS TM.
- 14,593
- 4,635
- 113
- Location
- Buchanan, GA
Having owned a few LDT and LDS engines, I can tell you what I've found.
LDS's have a different turbo (wastegated), less piston rings (3 rings vs 4 rings on the LDT), two port oil squirters, two port injectors, and the LDS injection pump.
I've had the LDT engine apart in my deuce. I installed a LDS piston liner kit in it. (NOS) The rest is obvious external differences you can tell by looking externally.
In my old 68 M35A2, that LDT had the most power of any multifuel I've owned. LDS equipped trucks included.
At the end of the day, the LDT (when adjusted and monitored with gauges) can pack plenty of punch.
LDS's have a different turbo (wastegated), less piston rings (3 rings vs 4 rings on the LDT), two port oil squirters, two port injectors, and the LDS injection pump.
I've had the LDT engine apart in my deuce. I installed a LDS piston liner kit in it. (NOS) The rest is obvious external differences you can tell by looking externally.
In my old 68 M35A2, that LDT had the most power of any multifuel I've owned. LDS equipped trucks included.
At the end of the day, the LDT (when adjusted and monitored with gauges) can pack plenty of punch.