lds wastegate turbo on an M35

[JasonS]

I talked to the folks at a regional turbo repair shop. They brought up a few points:

-This is a very old design (384 were built in 1969).
-While rebuild kits for a basic 4LE are available, housings and turbines are no longer supported by Borg Warner.
-Very few turbos had wastegates during this time and they were very crude.
-The nozzle ring was used to help spooling up the turbo (turbo is otherwise too big). The nozzle ring appears very restrictive to me.
-The serial number is recognizable as manufactured for Continental but there are no records of this design being used for Continental's engines
-Not worth rebuilding; stick with the 3LM but be careful of overspeeding. They didn't think overspeeding would be an issue even if I blocked off the wastegate on the 4LE.
-Before I knew the turbine was damaged, they didn't think that a minor leak on the wastegate would cause much in the way of boost reduction since the wastegate would be open anyway. In other words, 8psi would be the best that I could get out of it. Does anyone have any actual boos numbers for this turbo?

 

[gimpyrobb]

Try sending a PM to user id "Ken" in Tx.
He might know.

 

[sandcobra164]

I'm thinking of trying a wastegate turbo off of a CAT C7. Should be close to the D but with a slight amount of whistle. I think more air should help with the EGT's and I may be able to surpass an LDS with an LDT!!! They all have piston squirters, I'm still trying to figure out the difference between and LDT and an LDS. I've seen LDS's with C and D turbos so that's not it. I wonder if I can boost more psi on an LDT and have it hold together, keep EGT's down and Up the fuel even more than I have.. I'm a gambler at this point as I already have an oil weeping headgasket.

 

[JasonS]

it took some patience, but I found a rebuilt 4LE-354 (LDS-465-1A) turbo and installed it recently. It does make a difference.

With the 3LM-39 (D-turbo), the boost came up quick but so did the EGT. My FDC is compensated, and going up a hill, I would have to take my foot out of it pretty quick before the EGT got too hot. I couldn't use the extra fuel.

The 4LE-354 does't seem to build much more boost pressure but I can hold my foot on it continuously.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Next step is to try different springs, or put washers in, to stiffen the blow off spring. See if you like it with more boost. What numbers are you getting now?

 

[JasonS]

Actually, I was going to slightly turn down the fuel and be happy with it. However, I just bought a brand new 4LE-456 (LDS-465-2) turbo for relatively cheap. That turbo has a larger diameter compressor inducer, taller blades at the exducer, and a vaned diffuser. Gonna try this one next. I will post pics and dimensions of the 4LE-354 and 4LE-456 this weekend.

 

[Kohburn]

glad someone is doing this -

better turbo should really have always been step 1 in reducing EGT's (cooler air is better air)

 

[JasonS]

Schwitzer 4LE-354; 10945184. Wastegate turbocharger. Divided inlet; each half feeding 180° of the turbine. There appears to be two different compressor inducer sizes. This one is 57mm, my other (with damaged turbine) is 54mm.

 

[JasonS]

Schwitzer 4LE-456; 11641831-1. Divided inlet; each half feeding 360° of turbine. The diffuser has vanes. Appears to have the same turbine as the 4LE-354 but has a larger diameter 60mm inducer and taller exducer blades.

 

[JasonS]

The 4LE-354 (wastegate) turbo achieved about 12 psi peak. I try not to run past ~1000°F and I don't take the rpm to the redline. The 4LE-456 didn't perform very well when used in this manner. The most boost I could get under the roughly the same conditions was ~8psi. Very little boost at normal, lower rpm cruising speeds. I suspect that the 4LE-456 is better suited to the LDS465-2 with the automatic transmission.

 

[JasonS]

In case anyone is curious about the sound of the different turbos... In order of increasing noise: 3LM-39 (aka D), 4LE-456 (LDS465-2), 4LE-354 (wastegate), and 3LJ-319 (aka C).

 

[JasonS]

The intake tube from the M35A1 fits perfectly and is available from Memphis Equipment. Can't seem to post a pic, though.

 

[gimpyrobb]

SO your saying the non-turbo intake "horn" works with the big waste-gated turbo's output? (That was my thought anyway.)

 

[JasonS]

The 3.5" U-shaped tube from the air filter to the turbo's inlet.

 

[JasonS]

The 3.5" U-shaped tube from the air filter to the turbo's inlet.

I am thinking about taking the larger compressor wheel from the LDS465-2 turbo and putting it on the LDS465-1A wastegate turbo. Any technical reason not to do this?

 

[FMJ]

Jason,

I have a turbo, part number 2950-00-074-8930, everything I've found online indicates it's from a LDS-465-2 used in the XM656. Have you explored the CFM difference of the air cleaner element for a Deuce vs a 5 Ton LDS truck? I tried a number of searches and came up with pages and pages of nothing that dealt with CFM or air cleaner, which were the terms I used.

edit, just found it, 440 cfm vs 550 cfm

 

[gimpyrobb]

Good to see you posting again FMJ.

 

[FMJ]

2950-00-074-8930 Turbo end Item Identification: 2320-00-903-0883

http://trucks.tpub.com/00-903-0883.htm

Scroll down and it says M656

 

[FMJ]

So to utilize all the turbo capability you should upgrade to a 5 ton filter?. . . .

 

[JasonS]

Jason,

I have a turbo, part number 2950-00-074-8930, everything I've found online indicates it's from a LDS-465-2 used in the XM656. Have you explored the CFM difference of the air cleaner element for a Deuce vs a 5 Ton LDS truck? I tried a number of searches and came up with pages and pages of nothing that dealt with CFM or air cleaner, which were the terms I used.

edit, just found it, 440 cfm vs 550 cfm

I was able to trigger the air filter minder with a used air filter and the wastegate turbo; never with the C or D turbo. Did not happen again with a new filter. I will be installing a Murphy gauge with pointer to record the actual air filter restriction.

I tried the LDS465-2 turbo and it appears that it is designed for the higher rpm of that particular engine.