LDT 465 Multifuel. Andy3's Broken Camshaft

[oddshot]

I would think regular oil analysis might catch bearings going away.

PLUS 1. It's inexpensive and easily done. Oil analysis ain't a cure, but it sure is good for a head's up.

Cheap insurance especially for those who put a lot of miles on their Deuce.

 

[Coffey1]

That's very good should be able to tell if the new engine has any problems that stand out.
I am glad someone thought to save that oil because I did not. I have learned something.

 

[andy3]

Ken, Ted saved the oil from the old engine. I do not have a sample of the old oil from the new engine.

 

[Coffey1]

Do you think reckless or someone might know if that oil was still around. So you could get a sample.

 

[crusader]

Did the engine manufacturers use different sources for the bearings?

 

[rustystud]

Good job Oddshot. I'm wondering about something Mr. Varns said to me. He is the guy with the tractor that pulls 5,000 HP. He mentioned that almost all the tractor pull guys stay with the Hercules engines. I will contact him again with this question and see if there is a problem with the White engine and longevity issues. In all the rebuilds I have done and in asking others, the cam bearings are usually the last ones to go. They are almost always in great shape.

 

[bchauvette]

I there a smoking gun in the crystalline surfaces of the severed mating parts? Can there be a test such as hardness done to that surface. Perhaps a gunsmith might be able to help. I'm sure there is a process done to the cam for surface harness with a more ductile interior to take torque loads. A definite value for hardness penetration. what scenario would cause crystallization? Improper carburization heat and quench, Localized stress, cycling, Excessive heat/cooling in that location, although there is no sign of over temp?

Is there any manufacturing reference and lot numbers?

Destructive testing at that location on a junk cam?

Backfire?

Improper forging could cause abnormal structure.

Would White Motors like to get involved? How about sending pics to a cam manufacturer like Crane cams or the manufacturer of the replacement cams for this engine.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022309307014378

 

[Rmtaunton]

Ok there is now proof without doubt butch was the , and still is the smartest guy at the SSGR14 engine swap , not only is he brilliant in posts , but also the only one smart enough to bring a chair and from that chair pretend to make us feel smart , now I know it was an evil grin not a smile , as he laughs that evil laugh in his head :))

 

[bchauvette]

Ok there is now proof without doubt butch was the , and still is the smartest guy at the SSGR14 engine swap , not only is he brilliant in posts , but also the only one smart enough to bring a chair and from that chair pretend to make us feel smart , now I know it was an evil grin not a smile , as he laughs that evil laugh in his head :))

While I'm sitting making everybody look smart nobody notices I'm not doing anything!!! If I had a handle bar mustache I'd be twisting it while doing the evil laugh

.

Totally accurate likeness of myself.

I ordered a used rupture belt from eBay for you, just needs a little sokaing before use. EEEUUUUH

 

[andy3]

Butch, that picture is only half right.

 

[Coffey1]

I would disagree one side up and the other down.

 

[bchauvette]

Butch, that picture is only half right.

Couldn't find a picture of Snidly Whiplash with Bell's Palsy .... go figure

 

[swbradley1]

Ok there is now proof without doubt butch was the , and still is the smartest guy at the SSGR14 engine swap , not only is he brilliant in posts , but also the only one smart enough to bring a chair and from that chair pretend to make us feel smart , now I know it was an evil grin not a smile , as he laughs that evil laugh in his head :))

Maybe, but can he program a Boafeng HT?







(Sorry Butch, I couldn't resist.)

 

[Tow4]

Maybe, but can he program a Boafeng HT?

Nobody can.... Everyone that try's to, ends up buying the computer cable....

 

[bchauvette]

Maybe, but can he program a Boafeng HT?


(Sorry Butch, I couldn't resist.)

Ouch that hurt, now I gota go sit down... Oh wait I'm already sitting. now what?

 

[Jeepsinker]

Shot peening the area of failure would help with surface hardness, but would be hard to do without damaging bearing surfaces.

 

[oddshot]

Shot peening the area of failure would help with surface hardness, but would be hard to do without damaging bearing surfaces.

This is something I've been thinking about. If a cam is going to fail ... that spot is exactly where it would.

There is 1/2" of shaft between the bearing journal and the first lobe on the cam ... I think enough room, if you cut into the journal a little, to machine in a rounded corner without sacrificing overall strength of the shaft.

Follow that up with shot peening and I'd think you'd be good to go. If I were building a multifuel engine, I think I would spend the time and do this.

But THAT is just a band-aid.

The real fix is finding out why that (perhaps those) cam bearings wore.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is enough data to gather from just ONE failure to suggest its a manufacturer or fleet wide problem.

Let me get the rest of this thing torn down and see what there is to see.

 

[oddshot]

The cylinder heads are off. There isn't as much carnage as you would think, only a couple shallow "smiles" in the top of a couple pistons, only a couple shiny spots on the edges of a couple valves.

It looks like the pushrods took most of the hit.

Apart from that ... nothing abnormal about the top end.

My at home 1/2" airgun died on the first head nut. I had to take this all apart the old fashioned way.

A small change in plans ... I'm not going to take this engine apart and store it at the shop that employs me. More on this later.

I AM going to keep taking things off this block to lighten it up as much as possible and swing it off the truck with my bed crane. I will be building some type of dolly to roll it around on.

I'm a *little* too tired to take pictures just now.

... more to come.

PS ... for those who didn't already know ... these heads are H-E-A-V-Y!

 

[73m819]

I have a few questions

1 - On the worn cam bearing I see that it is out of round by longer then wide, Now I would like to know if the bearing is more elongated in the upper half or the lower half from the center line of the bearing.

2 - What direction is the cam gear driven,

3 - What is the oiling sequence

1 & 2 should correlate.

 

[oddshot]

I have a few questions

1 - On the worn cam bearing I see that it is out of round by longer then wide, Now I would like to know if the bearing is more elongated in the upper half or the lower half from the center line of the bearing.

I've been wondering this myself and have been trying to come up with a way to measure it. My thinking is that I should mark the bearing in a way to indicate UP and FRONT, then carefully remove the bearing ... and then measure it's thickness's with a micrometer anywhere I want to.

I'm also hoping that the back of the bearing will have some manufacturer markings. Very often bearing do have some type of data stamped into the back.

2 - What direction is the cam gear driven,

The crankshaft gear drives the camshaft gear. There is no idler or intermediary gear. Therefore, the camshaft rotates in the opposite direction of the crankshaft.

3 - What is the oiling sequence

This is something I am looking for and not meeting with a lot of success. A diagram of the lubrication circuit in the engine would be very helpful.

I'm going to be kind of pressed for time over the next four days, it would be very helpful and much appreciated if someone could find and post it.