Level Wind maintenance anomoly, Front Winch

[540fordman]

Have the same issues on mine....although my races and bearings are entirely unusable. Gonna try and mod it to use a needle thrust bearing instead. I'll post pics when I'm done.

 

[Wildchild467]

I hope this is the right place to post this question.... After a level wind is properly greased up and working properly, how much harder is it for one man to pay out cable by hand vs. not having a level wind? It is a lot harder? For example: If somebody was stuck and had to pull out 180' of winch cable, could one guy do it with a level wind on his winch? I pulled out about 180' of winch cable on a 925 the other day and it was work, but i was also in slippery mud and it IS 5/8" cable. So if the truck had a level wind would it be a whole bunch harder to pull the cable out if the level wind is properly lubricated and everything else adjusted properly?

 

[swiss]

I hope this is the right place to post this question.... After a level wind is properly greased up and working properly, how much harder is it for one man to pay out cable by hand vs. not having a level wind? It is a lot harder? For example: If somebody was stuck and had to pull out 180' of winch cable, could one guy do it with a level wind on his winch? I pulled out about 180' of winch cable on a 925 the other day and it was work, but i was also in slippery mud and it IS 5/8" cable. So if the truck had a level wind would it be a whole bunch harder to pull the cable out if the level wind is properly lubricated and everything else adjusted properly?

With the level wind you are adding another potential friction point going over the roller. How much harder is an interesting point that would be hard to quantify. Pulling out the cable I have found is always hard work and works easiest by running the cable out under power and keeping the cable tight by walking it out. The bad part is it is a 2 man operation. That said if you can get the cable out by hand without the level wind, if your level wind is working properly you could still get the cable out. You might be exhausted at the end of the pull but it would not be impossible.

 

[74M35A2]

I just posted a complete and working level wind and tensioner for sale in the classifieds for anybody wanting one for their winch.

 

[Squirt-Truck]

Wild,
When pulling out the rope with a level wind, be sure that the tensioner is OFF or you will never get it out. Also when winching the tensioner should be off. It is only for winding when you have no load.
Yes, 180' of 5/8 rope is heavy and a lot of work any way you cut it.
What Swiss stated, as a two man operation is by far the best. My wife is a great truck operator for winching operations, she follows the load-master directions.

Winching alone can be VERY dangerous, even more than normal.

 

[zebedee]

Wildchild - thanks for revving up this post again - I needed to add a postscript anyway. Hope you got your answer for the 'one-man operation'.

One alternative [ if you think you are going to get stuck - and will need 'self recovery' ] is to back away from a fixed anchor, paying out cable, then stowing loops/figure eights somehow on the front bumper - similar to loggers stowing tyre chains on frame rails,
OR - like 'off-roaders' the world over who are doing a load of river crossings/swamp stuff and don't want to be digging around underwater to find their bumper mounted winch, pay out ample cable and stow it, over the cab roof, in loops/8's in the rear bed.
(Cable stowed in figure 8's will not put twists in the cable - think about electrical extension cables having memory)

I do understand that... "Where there is a will, there is a way" - HOWEVER, as Ron and others mentioned, this is NOT recommended by those that have recovery experience/training and have seen first hand, the dangers associated with bad winching practices.

See also: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?99646-Using-Wrecker-Rear-Winch-Without-Soldier-B
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... Re the original reason for this thread, now confirmed having rebuilt the rear level wind...
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?130527-Rear-Level-Wind-Servicing-Tips
.. which comes with THREE grease nipples to lube the ball bearings rather than maybe/maybe not one for the front levelwind!

 

[Wildchild467]

I am referring to a front winch with level wind. Just wondering on the increased effort manually pull out cable with the level wind vs not having a level wind. Are there people that prefer not to have a front winch level wind because it is easier to pay out cable if there is only one person around to recover the truck (no soldier B).

Example: If only the truck driver is available to recover the a 939 series truck stuck in the mud… is a level wind preferred? What are the pros and cons of having a level wind? Obviously not having to worry about bird nesting the cable while winding the cable up would be one benefit. I would like to see peoples opinion what they prefer in this situation…. Level wind or no level wind. Thank you

 

[Csm Davis]

Wildchild it is MUCH harder to unspool but can be done, now to wind it back in the opposite is true set the tensioner to a good firm setting wind in the slack then ease off the tensioner and then wind in until unstuck, then add tension to finish winding in cable and proced on you way. Now for me, I am 6'8" 340 lbs, I want the level wind but if you can't get the cable out the winch is useless.

 

[zebedee]

Level Wind Pros and Cons

I am referring to a front winch with level wind.

Appreciate that - I just threw that in as it had been previously discussed and the principle is the same - just in the opposite direction (if the front has a level wind).

I would like to see peoples opinion what they prefer in this situation…. Level wind or no level wind. Thank you

Not necessarily in order - but here is a start for you to consider...


Level Wind (with tensioner) Pros:

1/ Stops "birds nesting" on unloaded wind in.
2/ Stops side bunching/drum overloading when fleet angle is other than 0 deg.
3/ Can store more cable (all the drum is used for each layer)
4/ Excess debris is squeezed out of layers
5/ Tim Taylor "Binford 6200" ToolTime macho appearance... (Important to some)
6/ Original Equipment - for authenticity on some trucks
7/
8/

Level Wind (with tensioner) Cons:

1/ Reduced access to engine on tilt hood trucks
2/ Free spooling harder/Greater force reqd to pay out if not adequately lubed.
3/ Added weight to front (yes minimal but some none the less)
4/ Reduced voids between layers/adj winds reduces ability to drain water.
5/ In your face appearance - not neatly hidden behind bumper
6/ May get the "That's not authentic" from some 'Rivet counters'.
7/
8/

For me - Pro #2 is probably the most important closely followed by #1.

For winches without a free spool dog clutch - soldier B is really reqd with or without level wind.

 

[Squirt-Truck]

I will add to what zebedee has.
Pro #7 or (2A), Allows full use of the flair leads, maximum off angle pulling with no rope stacking.
#8, Actually makes it easier to "one man" the winch when pulling.
#9 Reduces rope tendency to pinch in lower lays, therefore reduces potential damage to the rope.

Con
#7 Can seriously damage the rope by "unwinding" if tensioner used and rope allowed to spin.
#8 If not properly maintained, just a 100# dead weight that just gets in the way.

 

[zebedee]

Front levelwind parts - repair options

Had a request for more info on maintenance.



Question relates to replacement of part #14 Shouldered Shaft. NSN 3040-01-194-9884, part # 7994976-1

I do not know of the availability of this part, great if it is out there, though it is not 'out of the question' to remanufacture this. It isn't under a heavy load, nothing that would require hardened steel. So a large bolt, even just a piece of mild steel would be adequate. This shaft purely aligns all the swivelly bits. The bearings do all the work.

 

[charlesmann]

I hope this is the right place to post this question.... After a level wind is properly greased up and working properly, how much harder is it for one man to pay out cable by hand vs. not having a level wind? It is a lot harder? For example: If somebody was stuck and had to pull out 180' of winch cable, could one guy do it with a level wind on his winch? I pulled out about 180' of winch cable on a 925 the other day and it was work, but i was also in slippery mud and it IS 5/8" cable. So if the truck had a level wind would it be a whole bunch harder to pull the cable out if the level wind is properly lubricated and everything else adjusted properly?

i know its an old thread, but its been useful for me and hopefully for others in the future. as for your query, the past couple days iv been messing with my set up and yes, it was work and breath taking for a fat young, but old fart like me, but i was able to manually pull al the cable off by hand. as mentioned, the level wind adds a bit more drag, but it is manageable. pull till your dragging cable on the ground and get winded, then walk closer to the winch, grab more cable and drag it as far as you made it the first time. rinse and repeat till you have enough cable to reach your target vehicle.

what i wish they would have put on these was a type of manual brake to use when pulling cable by hand to help keep the cable from rats nesting.

 

[74M35A2]

i know its an old thread, but its been useful for me and hopefully for others in the future. as for your query, the past couple days iv been messing with my set up and yes, it was work and breath taking for a fat young, but old fart like me, but i was able to manually pull al the cable off by hand. as mentioned, the level wind adds a bit more drag, but it is manageable. pull till your dragging cable on the ground and get winded, then walk closer to the winch, grab more cable and drag it as far as you made it the first time. rinse and repeat till you have enough cable to reach your target vehicle.

what i wish they would have put on these was a type of manual brake to use when pulling cable by hand to help keep the cable from rats nesting.

I love the look of a level-wind. I bought one and added it. Then, I absolutely hated how much more difficult it made it to free-spool out the cable. When I am stuck, it is going to be in 4’ of yuck, and that is not when I want even more of a physical challenge. I then removed and sold it due to that.

You are bending a 5/8” diameter cable into a 180 degree U around a pulley. So even with everything loosened up, it is still a stiff chore, my opinion.

 

[charlesmann]

You are bending a 5/8” diameter cable into a 180 degree U around a pulley. So even with everything loosened up, it is still a stiff chore, my opinion.

i guess v got plenty of weight to put behind the pull. i do agree though, i found it slightly more difficult, but nothing to to difficult, to pull compared to when the front didn't have the winder. i just grabbed a root and started pulling. i yarded about 50', dropped the cable, grabbed a new handful and repeated till i got all the cable off. i had 5 layers of cable on the ground in just a few minutes. pulling through mud, yea, it sucks, but its gonna suck no matter what. but to each our own. i wanted it for a 1 person operation, which i think it'll do just fine once i get another valve installed up front.

 

[Another Ahab]

what i wish they would have put on these was a type of manual brake to use when pulling cable by hand to help keep the cable from rats nesting.

Oh, yeah, that is a pain in the neck for sure.