LMTV early years, before 1996 'first contracts"

[tennmogger]

As I read more about the FMTV, and specifically the LMTV, the date 1996 keeps coming up as the first military contract, a contract with Stewart & Stevenson. That means some of our trucks, like my 1994, and a 1993 spotted here on SS, must have been built before S&S had a contract.

Surely our earlier trucks went into service. Would a military contract for LMTV's in 1996 allow inclusion of pre-1996 trucks or were there contracts before 1996?

Maybe pre-1996 LMTV's were built for testing and qualification?

What do you think?

 

[tennmogger]

Yes, you are right. I am thinking too hard LOL

 

[steve6x6x6]

From what i have gathered S.& S. made the first LMTV in late 1992 and in early 1993 failed the field tests. It was too tall, rolled over on the side way ride on a hill. That is what brought on the E.S.P. program, the M35A3 was born.

 

[Gunzy]

Now remember that the LMTV from S&S is the Austrian Styer truck. Were the pre '96 trucks S&S builds or rebadged Styers?

 

[rchalmers3]

I would surmise the Steyr was for some European countries as well, hence the left hand drive.

Rick

 

[tennmogger]

Austrian Steyr, the "other" Australia.

 

[Gunzy]

Austrian Steyr, the "other" Australia.

I knew what I ment. LOL Fixed it.

 

[DSD277]

Now remember that the LMTV from S&S is the Austrailian Styer truck. Were the pre '96 trucks S&S builds or rebadged Styers?

Besides the obvious wrong country and misspelled name, The Steyr 12M18 ( and later 12M21) were only the the basis of the FMTV, and only the exterior cab sheetmetal are the only thing in common. A M1078 weighs in at almost 5k lbs more empty than the Steyr... or an extremely heavy re-badge?


From the time of my rebuild of the FDT, I had the privilege to talk with many BAE engineers and mechanics and former S&S engineers that told me stories of the early 'teething' pain of the logistic of getting some components for trucks on the assembly line, and trucks were put in a field to have them installed when the parts came in. He also said S&S was paid 100% for complete trucks and 80% for the incomplete by the government, hence the push to get trucks out the door.

My M1094 has a manu date of 2/96 and sn 3052 which indicate around 3000 +/- trucks were made up through 1995. I have also recently seen a low sn LMTV with a slightly newer manu date (than trucks with a higher sn) that I would surmise is that it was one of the trucks sent to the field incomplete, awaiting some component(s), at which time it was assigned a manufactured date. As I am writing this I checked back on my list of some of the R&D trucks BAE had for sale at it's closure and those sn's of the A0 and A1 follow a continuous numbering of chassis's from the start.

 

[Lmtv772]

in 1988 Steyr submitted their design to the FMTV program. The contract was supposed to be executed in partnership of S&S They have sent out 17 vehicles and after 9 months got the green light for production, which started in 1995.

 

[wyocommo]

As an aside, my 1998 LMTV has Steyr glass in it.

 

[DSD277]

Most everything that dealt with the exterior of the cab was Steyr (or built in the US under license). An engineer with BAE that I had contact during the last year of the Sealy plant had a previous assignment of eliminating as many Steyr parts as possible from the FMTV, and at the end, there were only 4 Steyr parts on the truck. One was the w/s washer reservoir inside the left step. At some point in the '90s, Steyr (large) trucks became part of Man Trucks ( I don't know any of the details).

 

[wyocommo]

I found the attached images of a MAN truck that looks like it could have been in the lineage of the LMTV. This is a 1987 unit so it pre-dates our LMTV's.

Apparently there was a lot of concept sharing between the european armies or they are very good at stealing other designs.

Didnt realize the MAN was a VW product until I saw this truck.

 

[DSD277]

Most of my interest goes with Euro vehicles and the methods used to accomplish an end. ( more than 1 way to skin a cat ).
Before buying the FDT, I had looked into several Euro 4x4 trucks ( had a Unimog 1300), the Man FAE 8.136, Steyr 12M18, and others. All these trucks bring top $ in Europe before shipping cost. The current FMTVs are only a version of a a Cab-over truck, that happens to have a Steyr (based) cab on it, everything else is pretty much US medium duty truck components. Every component was already made for some other application. Even the CTIS is a commercially used system.
Also, look at the Peterbuilt, Kenworth light medium duty trucks from the 80/90s, they use the Man/VW cab pictured above.

Militaries will find an idea they like, they'll put out parameters to have something built to meet them and each manufacturer will submit their vision of it.

As an additional comment. The Man/VW above has a small cab, whereas this Steyr is huge. Another comparison is between the Isuzu W and F cabs.
Also the Man truck above is quite a bit smaller than the Steyr in dimension (iirc). It has been year since I last looked at them. Even as big as a Unimog 1300 looks, it is still a lot smaller than a Steyr 12M18. ( and those dimension I can give from memory )

 

[Blackmagic94]

I have a 1994 M1078 LMTV that came from Ft Bragg, so what does that mean in this discussion? It seems almost identical to my 1997 MTV M1083 though.

 

[Chief_919]

I have a 1994 M1078 LMTV that came from Ft Bragg, so what does that mean in this discussion? It seems almost identical to my 1997 MTV M1083 though.

Many of the very first ones fielded ended up at Bragg, where they were all quickly deadlined and then restricted to driving at 30mph max because the driveshafts were falling out.

 

[Chief_919]

This link has some of the history:

http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/FY1999/army/99fmtv.html

 

[Blackmagic94]

But my 1994 should have the updated driveshaft installed correct?

 

[NDT]

Production started mid-1993. Here are a few VINs of the early trucks:
AT0156B-GB 8/27/93
AT0152B-GB 8/25/93
AT0158B-HB 8/30/93

 

[NDT]

Every truck got the driveshaft upgrade. LMTVs were not like M939 trucks where some escaped the ABS MWO. All were upgraded by factory techs, not soldiers.

 

[tennmogger]

Every truck got the driveshaft upgrade. LMTVs were not like M939 trucks where some escaped the ABS MWO. All were upgraded by factory techs, not soldiers.

Blackmagic, there will be a "D" stamped on the bottom area of your data plate. That D indicated the driveshaft mod.

BTY guys, my M-1078 also has a "C" stamped just before the "D". Any idea what that mod might be?

Bob