LMTV Passenger Seats

[Reworked LMTV]

Our issue is the size. We want a larger box than the 1079 and we enjoy building things. Though if I could design a 1079 to meet by better half's desires that's the way we would go. As it is, Globe Trekker appears better built and more affordable than the other boxes we have looked at for the DIY folks. You are right though $40m is our box budget for now, I am planning to go up and pick up the flatpak myself before we pull the cargo bed off.

Hopefully, I'll get to met you in person–

$40 MILLION? Obviously you live in Poverty

 

[hike]

$40 MILLION? Obviously you live in Poverty

Or you have forgotten roman numerals–

 

[coachgeo]

I looked at ambulance boxes. The two issues I found were a lack of height and thermal bridging. ...

lack of height issues is a fallacy many fall for. Loww height is only in first one or two of the three Classes of Ambo's if I recall right. Not that hard to work around if one wanted too though.. (rolling stools/chair) . Have a nice awning room and outdoor cook setup to go under it. Commonly many cook outdoors on family outings like this anyway.

For full timing..... though you would want one of the Medium Duty Ambo' boxes and those are made to be "stand up" ambo's. Also they fit on Medium Duty truck chassis same as LMTV dimensions. Shortest height of these a 5'8 person fits fine (Tis what I got cause wanted low trail height) .... and the tallest of these (usually swat, search rescue , wildfire personnel transport , dive teams, etc..) are set for handling folk up to a little over 6' if I recall right.

Thermal bridging- again a bit of a fallacy. Less than a 1/4 of exterior walls are fronted by interior wall if keep the exterior /interior storage (part of its strength so you should anyway). Exterior storage space pretty much would eliminate issue with thermal bridging cause of their depth. Newer the models... and the best of the builder's from say 2000's up I do believe have thermal bridging material built into them.

sizes... up to 16' long I think. Mine is 14.5 M1079 is 12.

 

[Reworked LMTV]

Or you have forgotten roman numerals–

Nah, I just haven't met any Romans lately : ) I'll try to remember this when I meet one though

 

[Third From Texas]

The two issues I found were a lack of height and thermal bridging.

Thermal bridging is an issue that carries over to all the military shelters, as well.
The AAR boxes on the M1079, etc bridge like crazy. But as with ambo boxes, it can be overcome with the right mods.

The ceiling height can be an issue depending on the box (and the height of the person). But boxes with 6' interiors are pretty common in the boxes over 12.5' long. But the kicker is finding an ambo box in the 16" range (as those can be far more rare).

 

[Reworked LMTV]

lack of height issues is a fallacy many fall for. Loww height is only in first one or two of the three Classes of Ambo's if I recall right. Not that hard to work around if one wanted too though.. (rolling stools/chair) . Have a nice awning room and outdoor cook setup to go under it. Commonly many cook outdoors on family outings like this anyway.

For full timing..... though you would want one of the Medium Duty Ambo' boxes and those are made to be "stand up" ambo's. Also they fit on Medium Duty truck chassis same as LMTV dimensions. Shortest height of these a 5'8 person fits fine (Tis what I got cause wanted low trail height) .... and the tallest of these (usually swat, search rescue , wildfire personnel transport , dive teams, etc..) are set for handling folk up to a little over 6' if I recall right.

Thermal bridging- again a bit of a fallacy. Less than a 1/4 of exterior walls are fronted by interior wall if keep the exterior /interior storage (part of its strength so you should anyway). Exterior storage space pretty much would eliminate issue with thermal bridging cause of their depth. Newer the models... and the best of the builder's from say 2000's up I do believe have thermal bridging material built into them.

sizes... up to 16' long I think. Mine is 14.5 M1079 is 12.

lack of height issues is a fallacy many fall for. Loww height is only in first one or two of the three Classes of Ambo's if I recall right. Not that hard to work around if one wanted too though.. (rolling stools/chair) . Have a nice awning room and outdoor cook setup to go under it. Commonly many cook outdoors on family outings like this anyway.

For full timing..... though you would want one of the Medium Duty Ambo' boxes and those are made to be "stand up" ambo's. Also they fit on Medium Duty truck chassis same as LMTV dimensions. Shortest height of these a 5'8 person fits fine (Tis what I got cause wanted low trail height) .... and the tallest of these (usually swat, search rescue , wildfire personnel transport , dive teams, etc..) are set for handling folk up to a little over 6' if I recall right.

Thermal bridging- again a bit of a fallacy. Less than a 1/4 of exterior walls are fronted by interior wall if keep the exterior /interior storage (part of its strength so you should anyway). Exterior storage space pretty much would eliminate issue with thermal bridging cause of their depth. Newer the models... and the best of the builder's from say 2000's up I do believe have thermal bridging material built into them.

sizes... up to 16' long I think. Mine is 14.5 M1079 is 12.

There certainly is more than one way to approach a camper. There are a lot of variables and needs. So there is no one size fits all. What works for one, may not work for another. I recall watching a guy who bought an ambulance camper saying there was so much that had to be modified to make it work for him, that it was not worth it in the end. Thermal bridging may have improved with newer models, but I would not call it a fallacy. I recall finding only short ambulances when I looked about 5 years ago. Is there a source for larger used ambulances that you can share?

 

[coachgeo]

There certainly is more than one way to approach a camper. There are a lot of variables and needs. So there is no one size fits all. What works for one, may not work for another. I recall watching a guy who bought an ambulance camper saying there was so much that had to be modified to make it work for him, that it was not worth it in the end. Thermal bridging may have improved with newer models, but I would not call it a fallacy. I recall finding only short ambulances when I looked about 5 years ago. Is there a source for larger used ambulances that you can share?

Facebook marketplace and craigslist. As well as Facebook groups, Ambulance discussion boards etc.... looked for a year though.

Agree it is a lot of work if you go into it with plans of gutting it down to bare walls and starting over... No way would do that. Why remove shelves and storage cabinets to build shelves and storage cabinets.

 

[Reworked LMTV]

But what is the cost?

Truck pricing - cargo models vs. van models. The van's tend to be going for about double the price of a cargo. With a 4x4 cargo being in the $15k to $25k range and a 4x4 van being in the $35k to $55k range. Lets say a van is $20k more.

A 12' rectangular enclosure (same as the M1079) from Globe Trekker is about $25k. Oh you want a zero-torsion frame for that? Another $12k. Plus shipping. Plus assembly..... it's flat-pack like Ikea so you'll be putting it together. So with labor lets just round that $37k up to $40k.

So roughly twice the price. Probably 3x or 4x the price if you want a much larger box for a 6x6 (M1087 is cheaper). And *maybe* it's as strong? Yeah I'm not seeing the attraction unless you want/need more space than the 1079 (or M1087) has. You will be into it double the cost and double the time. And still composite. The aluminum construction of the military box allows things that composites have problems with - like sharp corners around windows and doors. I used windows designed for stick frame home construction on my 1079 box. Because stress points at the window corners don't matter. Also cosmetically - if you want to retain the military appearance..... M1079 is half the price, better quality, and turn-key.

Supply and demand is probably the biggest issue. Lots of guys end up with cargo's because they are impatient or don't want to spend the money up front. The quality remains long after the price is forgotten.

Hmmm...so much info. to unpack here. So let me get this straight. You put house windows in your camper box because of stress points? No sure why sharp corners are an issue. These are not an issue for production that I am aware of. Better quality than what? Stronger than what FRP composite? Convenient? Yes.

Better than newer high tech composites. No way... I think that box is just XPS. I saw the 1079 when I got my truck, but to me they looked like a toaster with a vent on it. The windows were awful looking. Very unappealing in appearance. Put another way it looks very "lowest government bidder". But, for some people, this is what they want. I get it.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Hmmm...so much info. to unpack here. So let me get this straight. You put house windows in your camper box because of stress points? No sure why sharp corners are an issue. These are not an issue for production that I am aware of. Better quality than what? Stronger than what FRP composite? Convenient? Yes.

The windows typically used in composite RV construction have rounded corners like aircraft windows. This is because you don't want sharp corners or cracks may form in the outer skin and propagate from the sharp stress point. I spoke with Bill at Glob Trekker (we're local to each other) about this and why the RV windows from Arctic Tern, etc are always relatively small and expensive and it's because of the rounded nature, lightweight materials, and the RV industry tax. He agreed that due to the aluminum construction of my box there was no reason to limit my choices to the boutique RV industry offerings.

Better than newer high tech composites. No way... I think that box is just XPS. I saw the 1079 when I got my truck, but to me they looked like a toaster with a vent on it. The windows were awful looking. Very unappealing in appearance. Put another way it looks very "lowest government bidder". But, for some people, this is what they want. I get it.

Being a veteran motorpool technician myself I am right at home with the appearance personally. "Unappealing" is relative - I rather prefer to keep my truck looking like it might still be in service - everyone LOVES an Army truck and wants to go for a ride in it and check it out so I don't think you can accurately describe it as unappealing. And yes the stock windows leave a LOT to be desired. They are not insulated, and are way too small. The windows I installed kept the visual aesthetic on purpose. They are special order sized awning windows with a Z-bar mount. I couldn't find anything this size or configuration in the RV window space. They also have excellent insulation specs, etc being modern high efficiency windows - also made right here in Oregon!

As for the construction - it's not just simple XPS - it's similar but probably custom not off the shelf. The walls have vertical aluminum studs with thermal breaks, with foam in-between and the whole assembly is covered on both sides with a seamless aluminum sheet.

 

[Reworked LMTV]

Attractiveness=subjective
Stress cracks from square corners? This may be an issue for their builds, but this is not an issue for all.
In a previous discussion, you mentioned excessive cost of Bill's products? What is a fair cost in your mind? Just curious.

Aluminum is a nice material and they all have their pluses and minuses. One issue is repairing it. You may not care, but how would one fix a nasty thick tree deep scratch? Bondo maybe? Not being disrespectful, just curious.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Attractiveness=subjective
Stress cracks from square corners? This may be an issue for their builds, but this is not an issue for all.
In a previous discussion, you mentioned excessive cost of Bill's products? What is a fair cost in your mind? Just curious.

Stress risers at sharp corners is an issue for many sheet materials - even aluminum in some applications like aircraft (typically much thinner). You familiar with the tombstone engineering of the de Havilland DH.106 Comet?

To be clear - I don't think Globe Trekker products are unreasonably priced considering todays market pricing. But in the interest of leveraging as much value as possible from the military surplus channels and assuming you can live within the constraints of the size and aesthetic qualities of the 1079 or 1087 - just like the truck is now 1/10th the price the military paid - so is the enclosure. It's a better value if it serves your purposes and even Bill isn't going to argue that point I'm sure. Supply vs. demand and of course if you need/want something of a different size then the surplus choices are limiting unless you want to modify them (has been done).

Aluminum is a nice material and they all have their pluses and minuses. One issue is repairing it. You may not care, but how would one fix a nasty thick tree deep scratch? Bondo maybe? Not being disrespectful, just curious.

Oh that's easy. Either spray foam and bondo, or a riveted patch panel. Very easy either way. I keep my truck painted with flat CARC style paint so a rattle can for touch ups and rust spots is the order of the day. Just like when I was a PVT - head out to the motor pool with sand paper and a case of paint and make the trucks look good for inspection!

The outer skin is pretty thick - branches and other wooden obstacles usually just get OWNED by the box. Broken off and tossed aside, etc. I've never seen a mil truck with a puncture through the van skin. Would probably require hitting something more substantial than some branches. Take a look at my cross-section pics from window install. The only damage on my box was on the rear door where the grunts damaged the panel from cutting a lock off the door. Dented and a couple cuts from an angle grinder wheel. Bondo and a random orbit sander running off the truck's air sorted that out in less than an hour. Rattle can CARC and it never happened.

And yeah the appearance is subjective but there's lots of options out there besides Army trucks if you prefer the iPhone aesthetic and everything covered in cheap plastic.

 

[Reworked LMTV]

Stress risers at sharp corners is an issue for many sheet materials - even aluminum in some applications like aircraft (typically much thinner). You familiar with the tombstone engineering of the de Havilland DH.106 Comet?

To be clear - I don't think Globe Trekker products are unreasonably priced considering todays market pricing. But in the interest of leveraging as much value as possible from the military surplus channels and assuming you can live within the constraints of the size and aesthetic qualities of the 1079 or 1087 - just like the truck is now 1/10th the price the military paid - so is the enclosure. It's a better value if it serves your purposes and even Bill isn't going to argue that point I'm sure. Supply vs. demand and of course if you need/want something of a different size then the surplus choices are limiting unless you want to modify them (has been done).



Oh that's easy. Either spray foam and bondo, or a riveted patch panel. Very easy either way. I keep my truck painted with flat CARC style paint so a rattle can for touch ups and rust spots is the order of the day. Just like when I was a PVT - head out to the motor pool with sand paper and a case of paint and make the trucks look good for inspection!

The outer skin is pretty thick - branches and other wooden obstacles usually just get OWNED by the box. Broken off and tossed aside, etc. I've never seen a mil truck with a puncture through the van skin. Would probably require hitting something more substantial than some branches. Take a look at my cross-section pics from window install. The only damage on my box was on the rear door where the grunts damaged the panel from cutting a lock off the door. Dented and a couple cuts from an angle grinder wheel. Bondo and a random orbit sander running off the truck's air sorted that out in less than an hour. Rattle can CARC and it never happened.

And yeah the appearance is subjective but there's lots of options out there besides Army trucks if you prefer the iPhone aesthetic and everything covered in cheap plastic.

Ok, fair enough. Agree, and I don't think pretty polished lifted 4x4's pick up trucks with very wide low profile tires and stock axles have seen much serious mudding.