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Looking at a '53 M108 Gasser

SteveKuhn

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I spent most of yesterday going over an M108 locally. It's in remarkably good shape, though I couldn't check either the winch or crane (no hydraulic fluid, but no visible leaks.)

It hasn't been on the road since 2007 and was recently purchased a few months ago from auction by the county that had it. Deferred maintenance will make it necessary to tear down and do major maintenance and perhaps parts replacement on all 3 axles and brakes, and perhaps repairs to the airpack and/or master cylinder. Since I couldn't drive it, I don't know what might be up with components like the transfer case.

It started rough after some ether but in talking to the owner today, I found out that he had put diesel in instead of gas. He knows nothing about MVs, and was under the illusion that it would be competitive with the over priced modern stuff on EBay. I noticed a varnish odor from the tank but not diesel. He'll be going down tomorrow to drain that and do some tank washing. It probably only ran on it at idle. for about 15 mins or so total. Nevertheless, that explains the smoke and some of the weird odor.

I've had a number of friends whose old and more modern gassers have gotten a drink of the wrong stuff and had no further difficulties after pumping the tank and running some premium. I'm interested in others' opinions. Naturally, the more cleaning and flushing, the better.

Thanks

Steve
 

armytruck63

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Are you getting the truck, or just helping out the guy? The OA331 is a great motor when tuned up. Don't expect miracles from it in this almost 20,000 lb. truck.

Once you get the diesel out of the fuel system, you shouldn't have any problems with it. Don't waste your money on premium gas as the low compression 331 doesn't need it.
 

Recovry4x4

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Should have no long lasting effects. Fresh and clean fuel system and she should be up and running.
 

Recovry4x4

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It's a great yard truck. Has no practical commercial purpose and collectors usually pay them little mind. I'd price my offer based on going rates for non running deuces or scrap prices. I paid $3700 for mine and it was running but not driving. Honestly, I paid too much but I'm sure I got that much use out of it over the years.
 

Recovry4x4

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Their simplicity can't be overstated and I've lifted many a bed, shop van bodies and slung loaded an M715. It's no slouch but the outriggers will be needed.
 

JohnnyBM931A2

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Crystal Lake, Illinois
I spent most of yesterday going over an M108 locally. It's in remarkably good shape, though I couldn't check either the winch or crane (no hydraulic fluid, but no visible leaks.)

It hasn't been on the road since 2007 and was recently purchased a few months ago from auction by the county that had it. Deferred maintenance will make it necessary to tear down and do major maintenance and perhaps parts replacement on all 3 axles and brakes, and perhaps repairs to the airpack and/or master cylinder. Since I couldn't drive it, I don't know what might be up with components like the transfer case.

It started rough after some ether but in talking to the owner today, I found out that he had put diesel in instead of gas. He knows nothing about MVs, and was under the illusion that it would be competitive with the over priced modern stuff on EBay. I noticed a varnish odor from the tank but not diesel. He'll be going down tomorrow to drain that and do some tank washing. It probably only ran on it at idle. for about 15 mins or so total. Nevertheless, that explains the smoke and some of the weird odor.

I've had a number of friends whose old and more modern gassers have gotten a drink of the wrong stuff and had no further difficulties after pumping the tank and running some premium. I'm interested in others' opinions. Naturally, the more cleaning and flushing, the better.

Thanks

Steve
nopics ;)
 

SteveKuhn

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Well, I've decided I have to pass on her. It's just more than I can take on. If I could do all the work myself, and had a place to do it with the weather closing in, I wouldn't give it a second thought. I'd love to see it restored. I think the body and frame are in great condition - better than most I see. The winter won't be kind to it, though.

If anyone has an interest, I'll do what I can to help out in getting it to a home. Please drop me a note (email if possible rather than an SS PM). There's too much to type, so please include your phone. I also have a bunch more pictures - some not good but they're descriptive.

Thanks for everyone's help. It went a long way for me.

Steve
 

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clinto

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There's nothing on that truck that would scare me off, but I'm also smart enough to see $5-10K in work to get it up to snuff and that doesn't include restoration/cosmetic stuff.

It's pretty solid and complete for it's age-still has the waterproof plug wires. Interesting it got the air horn MWO. Surprised it has the later M-series dash lights.
 

clinto

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Clint, I'm interested to know why you see it costing so much? Because of the hydraulic system?
:)

Ok, so here's how I get there:

I don't know when M108 production stopped, somewhere in the 1950's. So let's call it 1955 for conversations sake. It's 2015 now, so this is a 60 year old truck.

The OP stated it hasn't run in at least 8 years and that it obviously has a lot of deferred maintenance and that's in addition to it's half-century+ age.

So this is what I would expect to find and what I'd expect to do:

Brakes:
I've had 2 1950's deuces blow the front-to-rear brakeline out on me, rusted from the inside out. I replace all the steel brake lines on all the 1960's cars I work on, so I would definitely plan on having to do these. You can have a local brake line shop (there's one here in Atlanta that's quoted me) for about $35-$30 a line. That includes the spiral armor and saves you the time of bending and flaring. Or you can buy bulk brake line and bend and flare it all yourself. So figure something like $50-$200 for brake lines. Then another $150-$250 for brake hoses, depending upon if you want rubber or stainless. Then an airpack rebuild at $200ish (kit) or an NOS/new one for $500. Then a master cylinder for $55 and at least a gallon or so of fluid ($75 if you're lucky). I'll give that it probably doesn't need shoes but you'd be an idiot to build an all new brake system and not do wheel cylinders. Napa's cost on new and correct units is $204 for 6 of them. Yeah, you can rebuild them for like $100 but all new stuff that's correct (has the right expanders) is a no-brainer. So just on the brake system and this assumes good drums and shoes, you've spent $750ish - $1300. Don't forget the electric mico-lock that's 60+ years old and it likely bad.

Then, since you're doing all the brakes, let's go ahead and do axle boots, inner seals, axle seals, etc. What all is that? $300ish?

Since we're doing all the axles, we might as well burn through a 5 gallon bucket of GL1 and do all the gearboxes with fresh, since there's no guarantee the gear oil isn't ancient, could have water/mud/whatever in it, etc. Can't find the part # to look it up. What's a 5 gallon bucket cost now?

So now we've more or less dealt with the underside and it'll theoretically roll and stop.

Now, get to the running part.

It's a 60 year old gasoline powered vehicle, so figure replacing the gas tank or having it vatted to get the varnish out (my local radiator shop charges like $200-$300 for deuce sized fuel tanks), cleaning or replacing all the fuel lines, replacing or rebuilding the fuel pump, rebuilding the carburetor, etc. So on the low side, figure maybe $200 for the fuel system, up to maybe a thousand, if you get all fancy with an NOS tank, NOS carb, etc.

Then the ignition. Rebuild the distributor with new bushings so the dwell will be halfway accurate, then points, condensor, rotor, cap, etc. Then new waterproof wires ($200? haven't priced OA331 wires but M37 wires are like $200), waterproof plugs (can't remember, $5 each?), etc. If you want a new waterproof 24V coil, you have to buy an NOS one because the repros are bigger trash than the M-series flasher relays. So what have we spent here? $350-$600?

The you figure all new belts and hoses. Let's call that $100.

At a minimum, flush the radiator. That's $10 if you do it at home. If you have to have it recored.................................... get ready to bend over. I've never seen an NOS gasser radiator, so you'll be recoring it and my shop that I've used for 20 years and had good luck with said it would be an $800-$2000 job to do a multi radiator because it's oddball core is expensive. Who knows what a gasser would be.

Then there's all the electrical. You can figure you'll put a few bulbs in it here and there, so let's call this $50.

Oil and fuel filters, plus engine oil change? Guessing here, $150 for everything?

Now, we've got it running and driving, and all on assumptions about EVERYTHING being good: no bad clutches, no worn out trannies, no bad transfer popping out of high range, no low oil pressure or death sounds from the engine, etc. And what have we spent?

Now, it's pointless to own something like and not be able to pick stuff up, so let's go the back.

I don't have to see anything more than those rear pictures to know that wire rope on the boom is toast. Rusty, kinked and broken. I have no idea what a 108 takes on the boom, but if it's 100' of 1/2", then cheapest I can buy that is $360 (for the correct stuff, I am sure incorrect wire is available cheaper), plus the terminals to terminate it (I know the 108 uses that old school ficture that's visible in the pictures, not real familiar with it like I am the esmet front connector).

Now, these beds take some odball hydraulic connectors, to the point that people have had to machine adapters to get modern connectors to attach to the bed. I am sure Recovry4x4 can chip in here and explain in more detail, but the adapters only handle the adapting part of the equation. I think to re-hose a wrecker, whether it's 108 or 816, whatever, is probably $2500. Ask Stretch about hoses-they're all so old that as soon as you start using it, you just replace one hose after another, so when the thing holds... what, 50-80 gallons, it doesn't make sense to do the hoses one at a time, as they blow. Just do them all now.

So $2500 plus 50-80 gallons of hydraulic fluid. And I'm not counting in this estimate having the cylinder(s) repacked, which trust me, you'll be doing soon enough on a truck like this. If I bought a 108, I'd do the cylinders at the same time as the hoses.

So now, we have a truck that theoretically runs, drives, stops, lifts, rotates, etc. And we've invested $4995-$6660 on just the stuff that we know, without even looking at the truck, that it needs. I don't have to see this truck to be 90% sure it needs all this. Sure, maybe somebody put new brake hoses on it in 2005, but now they're 10 years old and starting to dry rot.

And- at my current estimate, I haven't touched any of the following issues:

Tires-you know as old as they are, they're dry rotted. You know it. Sure, you might could get away with them only bombing around town with it, but driving it any distance or using it for work on the road in any way probably means 10 or 11 tires.

Parking brake-you know the shoes are worn, the cable is frozen up, missing a couple of springs, etc. Like they all are.

Windshield wiper blades.

Windshields, window regulators, door latches. At least a few of these are no good.

No seat belts (likely).

Probably has a worn out steering box.

Probably has some wiring issues, with all the wiring being 60+ years old. So new wiring, douglas connectors, etc.

Who wants to take wagers it needs pinion bearings on the middle axle?

And, for all the money that I've hypothetically spent above, I have not assigned a single penny to labor, because all home enthusiasts (myself included) attribute no labor costs to this stuff. So for all the above work, what are we talking---- 200 hours? 200 hours you had to take away from cleaning out the gutters, helping your wife with that exercise pole she wanted in the basement gym, sharpening the lawnmower blades, taking the kid of karate class, going out drinking with your friends, playing GTAV, surfing SS, whatever.
 

AMGeneral

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I have to agree with Clint on this one,although it looks great for a 60+ year old truck,and having a working wrecker/boom truck/etc, is awesome........

They will nickel and dime you to death,especially the older units that have been used by a municipality,civilian owner,what have you.You spend years fixing constant "issues" that pop up,usually when you need it most.

There is a way around the obsolete fittings on the Austin Western beds,but it's a $2000+ project.

Heck,the last time I had to order parts(cyl seal kit) they had to be shipped from Europe,and that was the LAST one they had!

Reguardless,eventually the parts supply for the "early" trucks WILL dry up,then everything parts related will most likely be a "custom" job.

That being said,after having both a M816 and a M62,I would find it difficult to be without one.

As much as I love the Mack under the hood,and the 50% noise reduction with the AW bed vs the Garwood,if I had it to do over,I would have kept the 816 and delt with the weak NHC 250 in a 37,000 lb truck.
 
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Jeepsinker

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Cool, I was just curious as to what your angle on it was. I most of that stuff I figured, but it was indeed the hydraulic system that added a bunch more to the price. My 936 hasn't given me many problems until here lately, now my crowd cylinder is leaking, so no joy there.
 

SteveKuhn

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Hasbrouck Heights NJ
I tend to agree with Clinto for the big job. He and I are close on the numbers I came up with for a major restoration. I was calculating whether I could do it based on limiting the scope, and crawling on and under it alot. I figured on taking a fix-this-and-see-if-the-airpack-holds-up approach throughout. I spoke to Jatonka who seems to have a lot of the important fall-back parts it might need. 'Course he's no help at all discouraging me from trying to revive a dinosaur.

When I was making my budget, I bypassed the winch and crane costs. I was looking to build a reliable, safe driver that was blue with yellow letters for parades, chasing the Toys for Tots Train, Sussex, Gilbert and the like. Not that I wouldn't LIKE those to work but my purpose was different. If I could have gotten them going without the difficulties above, fine. If not, that would have been the project for the next guy.

The engine is very even, without any clatter, even running on diesel-mix. It has 2 new batteries. It was a bit tough to start the 1st time after 2 -3 weeks of sitting, but 4 - 5 hours later when I went back in the afternoon, it fired off like a multifuel, essentially without cranking. Gauges read true if you can believe them. Yeah, it'll need gone through.

Tires aren't cracked, radiator is clean outside and coolant is clean and green. Fuel system has been reworked a bit, has a new inline filter, needs some more elegant routing, and has an electric lift pump. Tank is 30 gals, marked REO/White and isn't original. Should be cleaned, maybe replaced. Carb has been replaced and the old one is included.

One thing that won't be on the list - windshields. They're very clean. The hardtop is unique and really cool. Look closely at the lines. It's a custom job built by forming around a soft top frame, tying in to the windshield frame (it doesn't fold down), and VERY few seams and rivets.

I can't over emphasize how clean the sheet metal is throughout. A couple of rust bubbles are starting to form where there's usually daylight. Catch 'em now and you're set for a long time. The original auction photos show it sitting in a DPW shelter. I suspect that it was stored pretty much inside. The enamel on the outside isn't oxidized much and what appears to be a more olive, metallic Imron on the crane and interior is shiny.

There is wiring work but mostly on the DPW stuff and reconnecting and cleaning stuff that's popped loose. I WISH I had the antique flasher because IT WORKS.

Put it this way - if I was gonna spend the money for a wrecker and could afford the big project, I'd sink it in to this one 'cause I like these old 50s - 60s -70s trucks. I'd probably still be under the price of newer stuff and 40 - 45 MPH is fine with me. Besides, I like Strata Blue and this would be a great excuse.

My offer stands that if there's anyone as crazy as I am, I'll try to help get them hooked up with the seller.

Steve
 
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