Looking at a '53 M108 Gasser

[SteveKuhn]

BTW: Would it be OK if I passed along the assessments of tasks and costs above to the seller? I think it might go a ways to getting him more dialed in to what he actually has for pricing purposes.

Steve

 

[clinto]

I tend to agree with Clinto for the big job. He and I are close on the numbers I came up with for a major restoration. I was calculating whether I could do it based on limiting the scope, and crawling on and under it alot.

I'd just like to add that my numbers are based on the "crawling under a lot" system. A major restoration I'd estimate $20-$30K for. And my definition of "major restoration" is this:

BTW: Would it be OK if I passed along the assessments of tasks and costs above to the seller? I think it might go a ways to getting him more dialed in to what he actually has for pricing purposes.

Steve

You're certainly welcome to pass along the assessments from this thread to the owner. My experience in the antique car hobby that has pretty much convinced me that 90% of people who own old stuff have no knowledge of it whatsoever.

And when you try and educate them as to the realities, they typically just think you're lying in order to try and knock their vehicle and thus lower the price.

I've tried to buy so, so, so many antique cars and the owners want #2 pricing for #4 condition cars. You try and explain to them "Look, if I buy this car, I have to sink $40K at a minimum into it, and then maybe it's worth $50K and you want $25K for it, so that puts me $15K upside down in it and that's assuming nothing goes sideways when I get it apart".

And they just say "Somebody will give me what I want for it". The sad truth is a lot of times, they're right. Just like idiots paying GL and govplanet retail prices. Fools born every day and all that.

 

[SteveKuhn]

Ain't that the truth!

Steve

 

[Another Ahab]

You are right, Mr. Clinto, absolutely.

And the detail provided by you here is the voice of pure wisdom; hard-earned and priceless. Thank you, sincerely.

Let the Idiots be forewarned. And believe you me: I was one of them!

But, you know:

 

[Another Ahab]

I'd just like to add that my numbers are based on the "crawling under a lot" system. A major restoration I'd estimate $20-$30K for. And my definition of "major restoration" is this:

You're certainly welcome to pass along the assessments from this thread to the owner. My experience in the antique car hobby that has pretty much convinced me that 90% of people who own old stuff have no knowledge of it whatsoever.

And when you try and educate them as to the realities, they typically just think you're lying in order to try and knock their vehicle and thus lower the price.

I've tried to buy so, so, so many antique cars and the owners want #2 pricing for #4 condition cars. You try and explain to them "Look, if I buy this car, I have to sink $40K at a minimum into it, and then maybe it's worth $50K and you want $25K for it, so that puts me $15K upside down in it and that's assuming nothing goes sideways when I get it apart".

And they just say "Somebody will give me what I want for it". The sad truth is a lot of times, they're right. Just like idiots paying GL and govplanet retail prices. Fools born every day and all that.

I think this post by Mr. clinto should be set-aside as it's own stand-alone sticky:

- There is too much Pure Truth in here to let it just get lost deep down in this good and valuable thread.

 

[SteveKuhn]

Truth is, a lot of these vehicles require a lot more to get them on the road, maintain them, and perhaps spiff them up than they're really worth on the market. I think that's probably more true with MVs than with collector cars, just because everything is so big and heavy and many sit outside. There have been a number of pieces in MV Mag about costs/value along those lines recently. There's one in this issue about getting in over your head on a basket case called "Say Uncle . . ." Another one recently was based on a too-high price because of ". . .what I have in it . . ."

In my small circle of collecting friends, there are precious few bigger trucks (actually none) that could be considered fully restored. Most would consume (or have consumed) several thousand dollars to get them where they're at or to take up a level or two. Most could use a thousand or so to fix up a known problem or two. Most are what I was thinking of making this one - safely roadable, generally reliable for the next parade and some level of nice to look at.

They're fun, and the difference between what they're worth and what we have in them is the cost of the entertainment. I did most of a day and 90 miles at probably an average of 30 - 35 mph last week chasing the TfT train. One acquaintance brought up the cost of diesel to do that. It would have been worth it at twice the price. Getting the truck to where it would it would do it was worth it.

I'll never be a flipper. Don't have it in me.

Steve

 

[Jeepsinker]

It isn't hard to flip vehicles. I should know. I've put two Jeep Cherokees wheels up.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Just to add on to "value of a vehicle" I bought my 1952 M62 for $750 and drove it home. Since then, I have probably $4-5k in it and I've done nothing to make it pretty, its all been hoses and mechanical stuff. Sure I still have less in it than most but it still needs a lot. Wreckers, no matter how cheap they are up front, are $$$$.

 

[Another Ahab]

Just to add on to "value of a vehicle" I bought my 1952 M62 for $750 and drove it home. Since then, I have probably $4-5k in it and I've done nothing to make it pretty, its all been hoses and mechanical stuff. Sure I still have less in it than most but it still needs a lot. Wreckers, no matter how cheap they are up front, are $$$$.

Yeah, but it's a Wrecker!

Of course, easy for me to say when I got no skin in the game.

 

[rustystud]

Just to add on to "value of a vehicle" I bought my 1952 M62 for $750 and drove it home. Since then, I have probably $4-5k in it and I've done nothing to make it pretty, its all been hoses and mechanical stuff. Sure I still have less in it than most but it still needs a lot. Wreckers, no matter how cheap they are up front, are $$$$.

What most people don't understand is the cost of just normal maintenance on something like a wrecker. At work we own 7 three axle 120,000 GVW commercial wreckers (one for each base) . They must be ready to go on a moments notice so maintenance is ongoing. One manager once said it took $20,000 a year to keep a wrecker ready to go like this. Now most people who own wreckers will not be using there's like this and the cost of ownership will be lower, but the fact is they are expensive just to own let alone to regularly use it !

 

[SETOYOTA]

For me it's not always about the money. I am currently knee deep in the refurbishment of a m108. When done it will be a somewhat unique vehicle that has many uses. Mine ran ok before starting disassembly so l know at least in the collector world the m108 has many advantages over the larger wreckers having owned all of them .

what is the purchase price anyway?

 

[Evil Dr. Porkchop]

For me it's not always about the money. I am currently knee deep in the refurbishment of a m108. When done it will be a somewhat unique vehicle that has many uses. Mine ran ok before starting disassembly so l know at least in the collector world the m108 has many advantages over the larger wreckers having owned all of them .

what is the purchase price anyway?

The one mentioned in the opening post was up for auction at $3000.

 

[SETOYOTA]

I must be blind I see no price anywhere. For $3000 that truck is a great buy. It weighs 20k pounds.

 

[Evil Dr. Porkchop]

I must be blind I see no price anywhere. For $3000 that truck is a great buy. It weighs 20k pounds.

I don't think it was mentioned in the thread, I was following it on the other site. I thought $3000 was a very fair price and I'm surprised no picked it up.

 

[Recovry4x4]

I must be blind I see no price anywhere. For $3000 that truck is a great buy. It weighs 20k pounds.

I don't think it was mentioned in the thread, I was following it on the other site. I thought $3000 was a very fair price and I'm surprised no picked it up.

That explains it Jon, was thinking I had the same vision issues as Chuck.

 

[SteveKuhn]

When I posted originally for comments, the auction was open but I didn't mention it because of the rules. I needed a sanity check and I decided 'No' at the last minute. I posted more here after it closed, with the offer to put people in touch for the sake of the truck. I know the owner regarded that as an opening bid and I don't know if there was a reserve. He expected it to be a higher value (antique-ish) version of the higher priced, more modern ones he sees there. He really doesn't know what it is, or what it does or might need.

I don't think his opening bid was unreasonable for what it is, but I think it reflects a too-high original auction from the county in July. I found a few photos of it that showed it was kept under cover by them. If I had the where-with-all to do what it needs personally, I might have bid the opener.

It could be a good truck but I think Clinto's assessment is fair in case it needs everything he mentioned. If it's put through its paces hard, I'm sure it will. I came up with about $2K - $3K (and a lot of cosmetic hours) over purchase to get it to do drive arounds and static displays. That was with some cooperation from supplier and mechanic friends.

If I was looking for a worker and not a mostly complete and pretty correct looking blue gasser, I'd have to wonder if it would be better to look at the 5 ton multi-fuels. For simplicity and a lot of common parts with my Deuce, maybe not.

Steve

 

[wreckerman893]

Wreckers are money pits no doubt about it. But when you need one you usually really need one. Of the two wreckers I have had in my possession I have never towed a truck with them as intended. I find it it a lot easier to flat tow with the M927A2 since the M936A2 is a toad in the road when loaded.

That being said having the crane is invaluable for lifting and moving heavy stuff.

 

[SteveKuhn]

Thinking seriously about this truck, I was reminded of my limits. I've decided to confine my own lifting chores to ones that can be handled by this and a chain fall, mounted on my M103. Or my M37 gin pole and Sasgen derrick winch (another 1/2 finished project.)

Steve