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Looking to Purchase an LMTV

CaptainBillUSMC

New member
8
8
3
Location
Greeneville, Tn
Hello! New to the forum here. Don't own an LMTV, but looking at one currently. Have no experience with them either. Retired Marine and more familiar with 5-tons and had a license for an M998 HMMWV. Been wanting a surplus vehicle for about 10 years but chickened out in the past. But, I'm in an area devastated by Hurricane Helene. Wanting to get involved in a largely citizen-driven relief effort, I'm hearing there is a great need for a vehicle like a military truck. Not many 5-tons to be had and I'm more intrigued by the LMTV option.
The vehicle I'm looking at is a 1995 M1078 with just over 26k miles. No title for the truck, so I would need a bonded title here in Tennessee. The guy that has it now is using it as a farm truck. It's in good shape as far as I can tell, but I haven't seen it yet. Going this Tuesday to test drive it and ask questions.
Can the group help me with making a good decision?
  1. What are the pros & cons of owning an M1078?
  2. Are there any common issues with them? Like planetary gears, electrical, etc?
  3. Besides being slow, what are the challenges of driving it around town?
  4. Are parts easily obtainable?
  5. Any one have any experience with a bonded title on one of these?
  6. Is this truck capable of medium-grade terrain with mud, stumps, and washed-out roads?
  7. Insurance options and cost?
  8. What questions should I ask the current owner?
I know this is a lot and I'd be grateful for any help I can get. There is a great need for trucks to move the numerous donations, and to some remote places. Currently, they are using UTVs, ATVs, and SxSs to move supplies from a larger vehicle to the people, and as you can imagine, each one needs to make numerous trips, since they can't carry much. An LMTV would solve this issue.
Thank you!
 

Mullaney

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
Supporting Vendor
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Charlotte NC
Hello! New to the forum here. Don't own an LMTV, but looking at one currently. Have no experience with them either. Retired Marine and more familiar with 5-tons and had a license for an M998 HMMWV. Been wanting a surplus vehicle for about 10 years but chickened out in the past. But, I'm in an area devastated by Hurricane Helene. Wanting to get involved in a largely citizen-driven relief effort, I'm hearing there is a great need for a vehicle like a military truck. Not many 5-tons to be had and I'm more intrigued by the LMTV option.
The vehicle I'm looking at is a 1995 M1078 with just over 26k miles. No title for the truck, so I would need a bonded title here in Tennessee. The guy that has it now is using it as a farm truck. It's in good shape as far as I can tell, but I haven't seen it yet. Going this Tuesday to test drive it and ask questions.
Can the group help me with making a good decision?
  1. What are the pros & cons of owning an M1078?
  2. Are there any common issues with them? Like planetary gears, electrical, etc?
  3. Besides being slow, what are the challenges of driving it around town?
  4. Are parts easily obtainable?
  5. Any one have any experience with a bonded title on one of these?
  6. Is this truck capable of medium-grade terrain with mud, stumps, and washed-out roads?
  7. Insurance options and cost?
  8. What questions should I ask the current owner?
I know this is a lot and I'd be grateful for any help I can get. There is a great need for trucks to move the numerous donations, and to some remote places. Currently, they are using UTVs, ATVs, and SxSs to move supplies from a larger vehicle to the people, and as you can imagine, each one needs to make numerous trips, since they can't carry much. An LMTV would solve this issue.
Thank you!
.
  1. What are the pros & cons of owning an M1078?
    - They are the newer military vehicles. 4 wheels rather than 6. Easier driving. If you can get an A1 you might be better off.
  2. Are there any common issues with them? Like planetary gears, electrical, etc?
    Not really. Especially if the current owner has it running daily / weekly. The batteries are overkill with four batteries and an under-performing alternator. The ones I have tend to drain the batteries if you let them sit for more than a few weeks... Planetary can be solved with Eco Hubs, but honestly mine work just fine as they left the military.
  3. Besides being slow, what are the challenges of driving it around town?
    Just have to remember how big it is. Look up! The more you drive it, the more comfortable you will become with it...
  4. Are parts easily obtainable?
    Yes. Parts spreadsheet is a "sticky" at the top of the forum for these trucks. Wipers, Oil Filters, small parts are all available at your local parts house. Other parts are available - just watch where they come from. You don't want cheap chinesium junk. NOS (New Old Stock) is better but you have to be on the look out for imposters.
  5. Any one have any experience with a bonded title on one of these?
    Me, no. On the forum there should be folks who have done it.
  6. Is this truck capable of medium-grade terrain with mud, stumps, and washed-out roads?
    Yep! Just need to remember that it isn't a goat... Try to go around whenever possible
  7. Insurance options and cost?
    You may have to have "commercial" insurance. Even though it is a personal vehicle, most providers sell commercial insurance policies for a truck that size. Call around. Your current carrier should be able to write a policy- but you may find it cheaper elsewhere.
  8. What questions should I ask the current owner?
    Just talk to him. Has he changed the oil, inspected the gear boxes for oil? How long has he had it etc.
BE SURE that the air buzzer works. Some folks unplug them. Get it down to 90psi and it should turn on the buzzer. Does it hold air overnight? It should. If not, get yourself a spray bottle of dawn thinned and get to work!
 

GeneralDisorder

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
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113
Location
Portland, OR
Better to start with questions - I rather prefer to conduct this sort of discussion as an interview to determine if YOU are a candidate to properly own an FMTV. Any of the various models of military surplus trucks (FMTV and beyond) can and do work well for the *right* owner.

1. What is your mechanical background? Did you do any maintenance or repair in the Marines? What are you comfortable doing yourself. WHEN (not if) it refuses to start or won't go into gear are you going to get to work and figure out the problem yourself no matter how long and how much you have to learn to solve it or are you going to call a wrecker and find someone (can be difficult) willing to exorcise the demons from your toy?

2. What are your expectations in terms of performance and economy? Without modifications these trucks will do about 58 to 62 MPH depending on model and engine - and that's with the engine AT redline. They are happiest at about 50 MPH and get about 6 MPG. With ECO hubs (another $2500 investment plus installation) they can cruise 75+ mph without redlining the engine and can get 10+ MPG.

This aint a Chevy truck. You must realize this is a Militarized Class 8 Semi-tractor. Some parts are COTS (commercial off-the-shelf), but some are definitely not. Especially the electrical system.

Probably THE biggest issues people have with these trucks are electrical in nature. Especially the older truck with the 100A alternator, WTEC-II transmission computer, etc. Connections - especially ground connections - are very often problematic.

I'll copy what I posted on your Facebook post in response to the A0 discussion:

"The A0 trucks have largely already gone away. They have had a $0 MEL for a lot of years now. Being they are based on 1980's and early 1990's technology they are becoming difficult to support as many parts are discontinued being 30+ years old. Try to find things like the engine pressure sensors and switches - or anyone at a CAT dealership that has ever done an overhead on a 3116. Our local dealer will flat out tell you no because they don't have any old-timers that know how. Even the A1 and A1R trucks are being shuffled out of service because they can't be fielded - they aren't armored and that means they stay here in garrison. When I talk about support and parts I'm talking about what the military has and is currently buying and how that will affect the market in the next 5, 10, 20 years for people buying trucks now. The A1R shares 90% of it's parts with the currently fielded A1P2 and the military was buying those trucks brand new from Oshkosh till just recently - I've seen 2021 build date A1P2's. That means that parts for the A1P2 will continue to be ordered and be eventually surplused out for the next 20 years. All the A0 stuff is already gone and won't be manufactured again because they military isn't placing orders for thousands of spare parts. Need a WTEC-II transmission control? Call 1995 and ask for one?
😆
. This stuff is CRAZY old and in the world of electronics you don't trust them when they reach that kind of age. Don't get me wrong - they aren't "bad" trucks - they just aren't the smart buy at this stage of the market. Spending 30-50% more on an A1R will ensure you enjoy cheap available parts for the foreseeable future. A0 and A1 trucks aren't as easy RIGHT NOW to get parts for - what do you suppose that landscape looks like in 5-10 years? I doubt it gets better."

Obviously I don't prefer the older trucks. I've worked on a fair number of these (Army Motorpool) and I daily drive a 2008. It is far and away a better, more comfortable truck than the A0 and A1 trucks I've worked on. My recommendation is to get the newest truck you can find and afford.

Oh - and low mileage is NOT a good indicator of condition. That just means the truck sat for years and was likely not maintained at all. Buying a 20+ year old military truck that sat unused can be a HUGE rabbit hole. Tires are $1200 each for new from Goodyear commercial dealers, and most trucks for sale need them immediately as most have unsafe tires. Anything with a DOT over 10 years is trash. Army won't mount anything more than 6 years old. PS Magazine had a run down on that at one point.
 

GeneralDisorder

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
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Location
Portland, OR
Driving daily does not mean its is good condition, i am 2 years in and still replacing parts on a 1997 that has 5000 miles on it. lots of age on these trucks and all the rubber parts are just old. be prepared to spend about $500 a month for a while
Yep. I'm three years in and I'm still doing maintenance and upgrades. But my confidence level in my truck is higher than ever with 23k miles of daily driving on it. It is hard to think of ANY rubber parts I haven't replaced or aren't on my list for replacement. And mine is a 2008 so even the A1R trucks aren't immune to that effect.
 

CaptainBillUSMC

New member
8
8
3
Location
Greeneville, Tn
.
  1. What are the pros & cons of owning an M1078?
    - They are the newer military vehicles. 4 wheels rather than 6. Easier driving. If you can get an A1 you might be better off.
  2. Are there any common issues with them? Like planetary gears, electrical, etc?
    Not really. Especially if the current owner has it running daily / weekly. The batteries are overkill with four batteries and an under-performing alternator. The ones I have tend to drain the batteries if you let them sit for more than a few weeks... Planetary can be solved with Eco Hubs, but honestly mine work just fine as they left the military.
  3. Besides being slow, what are the challenges of driving it around town?
    Just have to remember how big it is. Look up! The more you drive it, the more comfortable you will become with it...
  4. Are parts easily obtainable?
    Yes. Parts spreadsheet is a "sticky" at the top of the forum for these trucks. Wipers, Oil Filters, small parts are all available at your local parts house. Other parts are available - just watch where they come from. You don't want cheap chinesium junk. NOS (New Old Stock) is better but you have to be on the look out for imposters.
  5. Any one have any experience with a bonded title on one of these?
    Me, no. On the forum there should be folks who have done it.
  6. Is this truck capable of medium-grade terrain with mud, stumps, and washed-out roads?
    Yep! Just need to remember that it isn't a goat... Try to go around whenever possible
  7. Insurance options and cost?
    You may have to have "commercial" insurance. Even though it is a personal vehicle, most providers sell commercial insurance policies for a truck that size. Call around. Your current carrier should be able to write a policy- but you may find it cheaper elsewhere.
  8. What questions should I ask the current owner?
    Just talk to him. Has he changed the oil, inspected the gear boxes for oil? How long has he had it etc.
BE SURE that the air buzzer works. Some folks unplug them. Get it down to 90psi and it should turn on the buzzer. Does it hold air overnight? It should. If not, get yourself a spray bottle of dawn thinned and get to work!
Thank you! I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. This was very helpful!
 

CaptainBillUSMC

New member
8
8
3
Location
Greeneville, Tn
Better to start with questions - I rather prefer to conduct this sort of discussion as an interview to determine if YOU are a candidate to properly own an FMTV. Any of the various models of military surplus trucks (FMTV and beyond) can and do work well for the *right* owner.

1. What is your mechanical background? Did you do any maintenance or repair in the Marines? What are you comfortable doing yourself. WHEN (not if) it refuses to start or won't go into gear are you going to get to work and figure out the problem yourself no matter how long and how much you have to learn to solve it or are you going to call a wrecker and find someone (can be difficult) willing to exorcise the demons from your toy?

2. What are your expectations in terms of performance and economy? Without modifications these trucks will do about 58 to 62 MPH depending on model and engine - and that's with the engine AT redline. They are happiest at about 50 MPH and get about 6 MPG. With ECO hubs (another $2500 investment plus installation) they can cruise 75+ mph without redlining the engine and can get 10+ MPG.

This aint a Chevy truck. You must realize this is a Militarized Class 8 Semi-tractor. Some parts are COTS (commercial off-the-shelf), but some are definitely not. Especially the electrical system.

Probably THE biggest issues people have with these trucks are electrical in nature. Especially the older truck with the 100A alternator, WTEC-II transmission computer, etc. Connections - especially ground connections - are very often problematic.

I'll copy what I posted on your Facebook post in response to the A0 discussion:

"The A0 trucks have largely already gone away. They have had a $0 MEL for a lot of years now. Being they are based on 1980's and early 1990's technology they are becoming difficult to support as many parts are discontinued being 30+ years old. Try to find things like the engine pressure sensors and switches - or anyone at a CAT dealership that has ever done an overhead on a 3116. Our local dealer will flat out tell you no because they don't have any old-timers that know how. Even the A1 and A1R trucks are being shuffled out of service because they can't be fielded - they aren't armored and that means they stay here in garrison. When I talk about support and parts I'm talking about what the military has and is currently buying and how that will affect the market in the next 5, 10, 20 years for people buying trucks now. The A1R shares 90% of it's parts with the currently fielded A1P2 and the military was buying those trucks brand new from Oshkosh till just recently - I've seen 2021 build date A1P2's. That means that parts for the A1P2 will continue to be ordered and be eventually surplused out for the next 20 years. All the A0 stuff is already gone and won't be manufactured again because they military isn't placing orders for thousands of spare parts. Need a WTEC-II transmission control? Call 1995 and ask for one?
😆
. This stuff is CRAZY old and in the world of electronics you don't trust them when they reach that kind of age. Don't get me wrong - they aren't "bad" trucks - they just aren't the smart buy at this stage of the market. Spending 30-50% more on an A1R will ensure you enjoy cheap available parts for the foreseeable future. A0 and A1 trucks aren't as easy RIGHT NOW to get parts for - what do you suppose that landscape looks like in 5-10 years? I doubt it gets better."

Obviously I don't prefer the older trucks. I've worked on a fair number of these (Army Motorpool) and I daily drive a 2008. It is far and away a better, more comfortable truck than the A0 and A1 trucks I've worked on. My recommendation is to get the newest truck you can find and afford.

Oh - and low mileage is NOT a good indicator of condition. That just means the truck sat for years and was likely not maintained at all. Buying a 20+ year old military truck that sat unused can be a HUGE rabbit hole. Tires are $1200 each for new from Goodyear commercial dealers, and most trucks for sale need them immediately as most have unsafe tires. Anything with a DOT over 10 years is trash. Army won't mount anything more than 6 years old. PS Magazine had a run down on that at one point.
When I was enlisted I did maintenance and as an Officer, I was an Aircraft Maintenance Officer. I have a farm and have done tractor maintenance. With this being a farming community, I have a mechanic that comes by when I can't solve something.

As far as performance and economy, i knew they got 5 MPGs or so, and most stock military trucks do below 60 MPH. Thanks for the rest of the information you shared. I am test driving the truck tomorrow. Not arguing with you, just telling you what I saw. Was watching a video on Youtube and the owner of the truck said the tires were $200 per tire. I didn't misunderstand or mishear him. You are saying that they are $1,200 a piece? Would you mind sharing with me the tire size?

Thanks again!
 

CaptainBillUSMC

New member
8
8
3
Location
Greeneville, Tn
Yep. I'm three years in and I'm still doing maintenance and upgrades. But my confidence level in my truck is higher than ever with 23k miles of daily driving on it. It is hard to think of ANY rubber parts I haven't replaced or aren't on my list for replacement. And mine is a 2008 so even the A1R trucks aren't immune to that effect.
Thank you! Would you mind sharing what rubber parts you replaced please?
 

98G

Former SSG
Steel Soldiers Supporter
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AZ/KS/MO/OK/NM/NE, varies by the day...
When I was enlisted I did maintenance and as an Officer, I was an Aircraft Maintenance Officer. I have a farm and have done tractor maintenance. With this being a farming community, I have a mechanic that comes by when I can't solve something.

As far as performance and economy, i knew they got 5 MPGs or so, and most stock military trucks do below 60 MPH. Thanks for the rest of the information you shared. I am test driving the truck tomorrow. Not arguing with you, just telling you what I saw. Was watching a video on Youtube and the owner of the truck said the tires were $200 per tire. I didn't misunderstand or mishear him. You are saying that they are $1,200 a piece? Would you mind sharing with me the tire size?

Thanks again!
The difference is buying new tires vs buying surplus tires.

The tire size is 395 85 R20.
 

serpico760

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I have replaced several Goodyear tires so far from feltz tire at about the cost of $300 ish per tire for unused tires about 5 years old delivered from Wisconsin. But for new you will pay up to 2K per tire. Guys I talked to at Miramar with a very HIMARS truck said they prefer the Michelin XZL, for being more durable than the Goodyears.IMG_20240929_130858.jpg
 

CaptainBillUSMC

New member
8
8
3
Location
Greeneville, Tn
I have replaced several Goodyear tires so far from feltz tire at about the cost of $300 ish per tire for unused tires about 5 years old delivered from Wisconsin. But for new you will pay up to 2K per tire. Guys I talked to at Miramar with a very HIMARS truck said they prefer the Michelin XZL, for being more durable than the Goodyears.View attachment 934484
Thank you for this info. $300 is still a very reasonable number!
 

GeneralDisorder

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
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113
Location
Portland, OR
Thank you! Would you mind sharing what rubber parts you replaced please?
Rubber parts as in , cab bushings, sway bar bushings, hoses fuel, oil, plastic air, Orings in everything. cab lift pumps, cab lock, selector valves for the cab, tire, and kneeling manifold
Plus air brake lines, air brake wedge piston seals, air brake canister diaphragms, brake treadle valve seals, ALL the weatherstripping and glass seals, every marker light neoprene seal (cab entry point for water), every grommet, duck-bill drain, intake elbows and couplings, basically every part of the hydraulic system - pump, cab latch, hydraulic control panel, all the hoses, the spare tire and cab lift cylinders, the kneeling cylinders.

The CTIS wheel valves, the CTIS pressure control unit seals, and on the newer trucks a significant number of the SMC push-to-connect plastic body air fittings.

The list is LONG and you might as well just say "all the rubber" because that's what it is - ALL the rubber.

And tires - yes it's new vs. surplus. And for $200 you are likely to get trash. You will generally be paying $400-$600 per tire for 5 years old or less, and as these need to be changed after 10 years, and are a lot of work to change, I personally prefer to buy new or almost new tires at a higher premium to avoid doing the job twice or three times as often - but to each their own. There's also the additional expense of the o-rings and valve stems that need to be changed anytime you have these wheel apart if you don't want to deal with them leaking. That adds about $45 per wheel. And *technically* you are supposed to discard and replace the 20 wheel bolt nuts (times 5 wheels so 100 of them) every time since they are one-time-use distorted lock nuts.

Please don't buy the first truck you drive. You'll have no idea what you are missing. Go drive one of each variant - A0, A1, and A1R. And try to find nice examples to represent what these can be, not what sorry state they are in now.
 
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