M-35 5 speed spicer 3053a swap to 5 ton'?s

[Armydillo]

I have 3 spicer 3053's trannys with the 5 speed overdrive. I am finishing up a powerwagon 4bt swap where i bought the Phpneix casting sae 3 to 2 adapter for $500.. What I need to know is has anybody here ever taken the transmission bellhousing off of a 5 ton truck(which i understand is sae#2) and swaped it out with the sae#3 spicer M-35 transmission bellhhousing??

That way i could just buy the 5 ton transmission bellhousing in sae#2 seperate and then bolt it where the spicer 3053a sae#3 was at?
I have found and bolted up an aftermarket 5.9 cummins made in china flywheel and bellhsing for a fl 80 in sae#2. Anybody got just the front part of a 5 ton transmsiion for sale or has ever done this swap out with a 3053a to avoid the sae adapter? The adapter is about $500 yikes, i figure somebody would part out a 5 ton spicer tranny if this will interchange?? Thanks in advance

 

[m-35tom]

??? the 5 ton trans (spicer 6000 series) is in no way interchangeable with the 2 1/2 ton trans (spicer 3000 series) if you are using a 4bt you might want to look at my website for trans upgrade. you also might want to talk with charles talbert at m series rebuild, he can tell you anything you need to know about the swap you are doing.

tom

 

[Armydillo]

The SAE #3 clutch housing on the Spicer 3053a 2 1/2 ton is removeable and, the clutch housing on the 5 ton is removeable as well, one simply unbolts it and swaps it out, surplus army truck people have told me that the 5 ton is sae#2, the 3053a is SAE#3, so swap out the clutchhousings and then i can bolt up my spicer 3053a sae swaped to a SAE#2 5 ton clutching to my SAE#2 bellhousing direct without the adapter to the Freightliner FL-80 flywheel housing.

I ordered a 5 ton clutch housing off of a 5 ton today($125) and will post up later the pics of how it works if it works, i only know what I was told by 2 m35 dealers who have seen or heard of the clutch housing swap out. If one looks at a spicer factory clutch housing catalog its clear the Spicer transmssion was made with sae 2 and 3 applications from the factory. Will this swap work in the real word remains to be seen. Will know for sure shortly.

Charles Talbert will not tell anyone how to do the swap, been there, done that as well as several other people have tried as well to get the details from him. Hope I can order a set of gears from you some day soon. Thanks for all of your work on the spicer 3053a

 

[m-35tom]

good luck, i think you have been told wrong. the 5 ton trans is way bigger that the 2 1/2 ton. i think you are comparing the flywheel housing which is the same on both trucks, but is not a true sae2, but can be modified.

tom

 

[Armydillo]

good luck, i think you have been told wrong. the 5 ton trans is way bigger that the 2 1/2 ton. i think you are comparing the flywheel housing which is the same on both trucks, but is not a true sae2, but can be modified.

tom

I am not sure, but if that was the case them the clutch would be the same for both trucks, they have different part numbers I thought, but of course that alone does not make them different. I guess a hint would be if a m35 clutch is the same dia as a 5 ton clutch, i am betting the m35 is a 13 inch clutch and the 5 ton clutch is a 14 inch clutch. Does the 5 ton use that alumium adapter ring that the m35 uses or does it bolt it withOUT a adapter like the m35 uses?? If not thats another hint that the 5 ton truck has a 14 clutch aka SAE#2. So following that logic take the bell off the 5 ton and bolt it on the m35 tranny and avoid the $500 sae#3 to Sae2 adapter???? Makes sense?? Anybody know what size the 5 ton clutch dia is???

 

[OPCOM]

5 ton transmission is the Dana (Spicer) 6453 (I was curious and looked it up). It is huge for an M35 - also the shafting may cause issues.

7. TRANSMISSION
Make . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..Dana
Model . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...6453
Type . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. Synchromesh
Speeds Forward . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...5
SpeedsReverse . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...1
GearRatios:
1st . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...6.07.1
2nd . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...3.40.1
3rd . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...1.79.1
4th . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...1.00.1
5th . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...0.78.1
Reverse . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...6.09.1

8. TRANSFERCASE
Make . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. Rockwell Standard
Model . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..T-138
Type . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. Automatic front axle drive



other info for the series of gearing:
FEATURE ARTICLE from Hemmings Motor News

1961-'65 Ford H-Series cabovers

Hemmings Motor News - NOVEMBER 1, 2008 - BY JIM O'CLAIR


Spicer 5000, 6000 and 8000 series "synchro silent " five-speeds were offered in "direct-in-fifth" or "overdrive-in-fifth" configurations. A Spicer 12-speed was another drivetrain option, as were several Spicer 7000 series three- and four-speed auxiliary transmissions.

a ton of manuals and info on transmissions here:
http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/onlineorder/product.asp

 

[Armydillo]

Can anybody tell if the 5 speed uses a 14 inch clutch in the 5 ton truck?? If it does means there is a chance that the housings can be swaped out. The freightliner fl80 uses a sae 2 bell with 14 inch clutch. I know i have to get a custom clutch disc made for the 3053a with the 14 inch clutch.

 

[gringeltaube]

...... i am betting the m35 is a 13 inch clutch and the 5 ton clutch is a 14 inch clutch....

Correct on the 2.5s 13", 5ton clutch is more like 15"

Does the 5 ton use that alumium adapter ring that the m35 uses or does it bolt it withOUT a adapter like the m35 uses??

No adapter needed since both, 5ton bellhousing AND clutch housing are true SAE#2.

Some more info here in this old thread:
-ldt-bellhousing-sae-size.html

G.

 

[Armydillo]

Well thanks for all the coments, i am waiting on a 5 ton clutch hosuing to come in so i can see if it will match up to my 3053a tranny, i sure hope it works, that way all one needs is the $100 housing off a junker 5 ton 5 speed to bolt up to the sae 2 flywheel housing on the fl80 5.9 sae 2 set up and avoid the adapter, but still need to make a custon 14 inch clutch disc in 1.5 input shaft and get a crankshaft bearing that fits the cumins 5.9 using the 3053a 1.5 input shaft size with a 14 clutch. I just need to make sure the 5 ton exchanges with the 2 1/2 ton yeehawwwww if not i will try a newer fuller 5 speed in sae 2 if i can find a junker at a big truck rebuild shop, i have the new aftermaket china flywheel and flywheel hosing with a driver side starter that is available at napa or autozone will post up soon as i get er done!!

 

[ranchhopper]

I have a five ton trans in my bobbed deuce behind a cat 3208 I can tell you the throw of the clutch is opposite of the deuce.I had to recut the key ways 180 degrees in the shaft your clutch and brake pedal ride on.

 

[hoon1972]

Armydillo have you had a chance to see if the 5 ton bell housing interchanges. I am planning the same swap and was curious about the 5 ton housing also. Do you have a part number for that flywheel housing with the drivers side starter? All I have been able to find is the passenger side starter. Thanks

 

[jollyroger]

Just use the clutch disk that would go with the 3053 tranny. Since it is smaller than the 5 ton clutch it should fit inside the pressure plate. Only problem should be if it is thinner than the bigger disk and would not engage the flywheel/pressure plate.

 

[gringeltaube]

..................... Anybody got just the front part of a 5 ton transmsiion for sale or has ever done this swap out with a 3053a to avoid the sae adapter? The adapter is about $500 yikes, i figure somebody would part out a 5 ton spicer tranny if this will interchange?? Thanks in advance

Sorry, I'm still trying to figure out why all this guesswork....!?
Why not just get a used adapter ring from a junkyard? It should cost even less than that #6453 clutch housing you are looking for, which will NOT bolt up to the 3053 tranny!
The only #2->#3 ring I have here came out of a schoolbus Navistar 7.3L IDI w/ Allison auto. Guess there are plenty of them still around, for parts.......????
This one's part number is: 480861C1, followed by SCC which might be the mfr. (?) Letters are cast into the part and this ring is grey cast iron.


BTW, I just returned from a N- FL trip which included visiting a typical junkyard close to Live Oak... There I saw at least two of those engines laying on the ground, with that ring still on...! (you can PM me if you want their ph#)

Maybe this helps you a bit further...?

G.