M1009 4" lift driveline vibration troubleshoot/new driveline components

[nudewheeler]

Howdy Folks -

Just threw on a 4" lift kit assembled by ORD. My kit was composed of:

• 4" lift springs by tuff country for the rear
• 4" HD lift springs by tuff country for the front
• ORD HD front shackles (yes, these deserve a BAMF stamp)
• greasable components for all moving joints of the suspension
• raised steering arm
• sway bar disconnect kit
• brake lines

and all the other jazz for a lift. Important to note, I chose to throw new springs under each corner.

Chose a comprehensive setup of a basic 4" lift for my first "lift a truck" project. Didn't want to get a new driveshaft for the rear or troubleshoot any driveline vibrations.

So, after throwing the lift on, took it for a spin around the block and definitely introduced a considerable driveline vibration. The vibration was interesting (my first lifted truck, so this is all quite new). It was not speed dependent, but rather appeared during acceleration. The vibration/shutter occurred at the same frequency regardless of speed or acceleration. Magnitude of the vibration/shutter does however increase with increasing acceleration. The magnitude of vibration was significant enough to jingle the keys hanging in the ignition. Let off the gas at any time and the vibrations stopped immediately.

Took some time to digest the problem. Did some reading, called some people and after some driveline measurements, it was apparent the pinion angle raised some concern.

The pinion was not pointing ~ 3-4* higher than the output shaft of the transfer case. OK great, throw some shims under this sucker and all should be solved. That was the plan at least.

Picked up 2.5* and 4* shims for the experiment. Threw the 2.5* in first with the large part of the wedge facing the front of the vehicle to kick the pinion down towards the ground in attempts to match the plane of the pinion and t-case output shaft. Took it out for a spin and the vibration/shutter definitely reduced in magnitude while maintaining the same frequency as before. Also as before, when I let off the gas at any point the vibration/shutter ceased immediately.

Ok, this didn't solve the problem entirely. Took a measure of things and found the pinion still pointing up ~1 or so degrees from the t-case output shaft. Time for the 4* shims.

These didn't really seem to make much difference. The pinion is now pointing ~1-2* below the plan of the t-case output shaft, the recommended setup by all driveline documentation I have been able to soak up from the internet in the past week (driveline 101, pirate 4x4, 4xshaft etc etc).

With the 4* shims. angles at both Ujoints are a bit concerning. Currently I believe there is about 20* of angle between the t-case and driveshaft and 23* between driveshaft and pinion. Angles >20* also raise concern for Ujoints from my understanding. Driveshaft appears to still be adequate engagement at the slip, but it has definitely been reduced.

For the past two weeks I've been reading and mulling over this problem. My only surefire conclusion is to get a double cardan (CV) driveshaft and a transfer case with a slip yoke eliminator kit (SYE). This def. wasn't in the plan of the project. And, my wallet doesn't like diets.

This has been the solution I've spent the most time digesting. May have a lead on an NP241 with a SYE kit installed. Then I'll just need a double cardan driveshaft. But this whole setup is at least $750, and that's a chunk.

Now, I understand this whole idea of the transfer case lowering kit/shimming as well. Honestly, I am not really interested in stressing the motor mounts and possibly introducing new driveline problems with the front driveshaft. This could be part of my solution, but I am just not that interested in doing this.

I am really curious:
How have other folks solved any driveline vibrations introduced with a basic 4" lift kit?

• basic and conventional pinion shimming did the trick?
• shimmed in an unconventional way to point the pinion UP towards the driveshaft, minimizing angle at the pinion Ujoint?
• transfer case drop?
• Or, did the basic 4" call for a double cardan driveshaft and a SYE kit?

All experience/advice/help welcomed and thanked in advance.

 

[Cleptomaniac]

I lifted mine and have had no problems. But I think I would try a transfer case drop b4 spending 700+ in the drive shaft! The drop is reversible and is free.

 

[chevyCUCV]

That was an awesome post. Very informative.
I would try and get an np205 before i went to a 241. Gear driven vs chain driven
Also did you replace the ujoints? I think its good measure to be replaced when modifying the suspension.

 

[nudewheeler]

Ah, Ujounts, yes of course. This I forgot to mention. Haha pardon, my brain was shutting down at 0130.

When I first started troubleshooting this vibration I removed the driveshaft from the vehcile. I greased the splines in the driveshaft slip to ensure everything was greased at the slip yoke of my NP208. I wanted to verify this shutter was not a bind originating from a sticky slip. This did not help my symptoms however.

When I had the driveshaft out, I checked the Ujoints manually. They did not have any lateral play, nor did they have any sticky or binds throughout the entirety of their motion. I feel the Ujoints are in good condition.

I have my eye on an NP241 that's for sale here locally that apparently has a SYE installed when it was rebuilt 2 years ago. See my post inquiring about the installation an NP241. Don't know details about the case, still need to see it.

@Cleptomaniac, your financial reasoning screams logic. I want to explore other options first. I may have to investigate these sleeves folks flip. However, I am still hesitant. Cure for one (rear shaft), concession for another (front shaft).

Thanks for the replies guys. Looking forward to more information!

 

[sschaefer3]

I have an M1008 and did a 4" front, 5" rear ORD lift along with a 203/205 Doubler. I also built a flat bed and shortened the truck a bit. So I am not as long as a normal M1008 with the longer t-case and axle back toward the cab 2". I do not have any vibrations what so ever, but I am still alot longer than you. I also have 1410 joins all around. So why am I writing? I have built many many Toyotas I do it for a living and all of those had to run the rear CV shafts, they are a similar length to your M1009 and similar lift height. Trail Gear 4". We would acquire rear drive shafts from a 1996-2002 Toyota 4Runner as it was a double cardigan at the case and a single on the shaft, point the pinion so the shaft at the axle was straight and it worked.

My vote is spend the money but maybe consider putting a 205 in that already has a fixed yoke. You will need a new drive shaft, but Phoenix Rack and Axle will make you one for a very reasonable charge. You can find TH400 to 205 adapters on eBay. The 1980's Chevy 205's have a slip yoke that is what I original bout and had to convert that but just look for one from the 1970's.

My call is a Double Cardigan shaft.

 

[sschaefer3]

I did find on the internet some place selling some sort of SYE kit for the 208, but it looked like a press fit non-sliding yoke. I opted for the 205.

 

[Anubis8472]

You might want to check the driveshaft itself for straightness/ballance.
Sometimes changing an angle is just what's needed to amplify an existing issue you didn't notice before.

You can also try removing the drive shaft, rotate it 180, and re-install.
Did you remove the shaft when doing the lift? If so, did you mark the ends so that you re-installed lined up the same way?

I was under mine yesterday greasing all my joints and noticed my front shaft is bent, I can probably assume it goes with the front fender/door forklift damage.

Never noticed it before as I have not used 4wd at much more than walking speed. (I know from experience when the front shaft breaks they beat the **** out of the floor directly under your passengers feet, leading them to express one of the best "OMG-WTF" looks you will ever see)

 

[chevyCUCV]

I think that even if the ujoints feel good, they should still be replaced.
You went with new everywhere underneath the truck, why not the u joints too?

It is also a cheap option to try before going the driveshaft route

 

[Cucvnut]

241 will be cheaper than installing a 205. plus with a 205 you lsoe your low gear its only 2.00: 1 the 241 is 2.72:1 a 208 is 2.60:1

 

[Gottlos]

I’m in a similar situation as the OP. My M1009 has a horrible rear end roar at speeds above 65mph. A little back ground on my truck. I have had it converted from the stock 10 bolt axles to the Dana 60/Corp 14 bolt set up. Still has the stock 6.2/TH400/NP208 setup. The truck has about a four inch lift on it. I don’t have the talent/space/time to do the hard work myself so I have to pay someone else to do it.
Here is what the shop wants to do to attempt to fix the noise. They would like to swap out the NP 208 for an NP 205 which they say will decrease the angle of the rear driveshaft. With all the expense involved I can’t help but wonder is there a way to fix the angle without going broke? The shop removed and inspected the 208 and found nothing wrong. They inspected and adjusted the ring and pinion and checked the locker. Could something as simple as a tired U-joint cause the noise?
Any advice would be helpful.
<--ME

 

[Sharecropper]

I've just got to believe that there is more to it than simply driveshaft angle. I raised my M1028 5" and have absolutely no vibration whatsoever. Before I would spend big bucks for a new TC, I would have a driveshaft shop produce new, balanced shafts with new U-joints. Just my 2 cents.

 

[sschaefer3]

Make sure the u-joints are in the same plane. Take a look at this info page it really helped me.

Tom Wood's Custom Drive Shafts - Tom Woods Custom Drive Shafts Custom Driveshafts Specialist

Then click on "Tech Info" then click Geometry 101.

Make sure your single u-joins are lined up as they show.

 

[Cucvnut]

I have no vibration on my m1008 it has about 5 inches of lift on it. Check your d shafts like said before. Putting in a 205 is not worth the time vs cost in parts.

 

[RIDDLE1]

I had a vibration after I lifted a Dodge 4 inches. I checked for any signs of wear in my U-joints before buttoning everything back up and found nothing. They did not have any play and moved freely.

I researched all sorts of possible causes and finally just went and bought new U-joints. Wouldn't you know it fixed the problem.

 

[Skinny]

Near anyone with a similar rig that you can swap rear shafts out of to verify it is the driveshaft?

I would avoid a tcase drop at all costs, they are very counter-productive. If anything, fabricate a motor mount lift to maintain ground clearance and relieve the rear driveshaft angle.

 

[Gottlos]

New U-joints it shall be. Hopefully this will fix the problem. If not, more of this .

 

[Cucvnut]

if you lived closer i would let you run my space drive shaft and see if that fixed the problem.

 

[84cucv1ton]

a shim was all mine needed

 

[Gottlos]

a shim was all mine needed

Shims were added under the lift blocks to give the rear diff a different angle. It didn't seem to help. I'm probably going to replace the rear u-joint and see if things are better. If that fails I'll try something else.

 

[Gottlos]

Ok here's the final result. Swapped out the lift blocks in the rear for a slightly shorter one and checked the tail shaft and diff yoke angles. Noise is gone and my M1009 looks to be level front to back.