M1009 4BT swap!

[Patattack]

First off new user name but not new to the site I think my last name was patattack46 or something thing like that lost the password and dropped that email so off to a new start. Ok first I would do a intro into this but ITS TO LATE!!!!!!! I already murdered the truck over a year ago, it a long story and I go into detail about it later in the forum but not now.

Second in not going to go into detail about power options in a 6.2 vs a 4bt/6bt swap I pretty sure it's be talked about on this site many of times. So do your own research.... Like I did, 4bt swaps has a wealth of knowledge on this subject so look on there.

Why am I putting a 4bt in this truck you ask? Well the answer is if you want more speed or hp your not going to get it out of a 6.2 with out lots of money to see real gains. So for the same price as for a built 6.2 you can get a stock p pump 4bt and do power mods on the real cheap or free. So that why.

Im a diesel mechanic in the real world so I do this for a living everyday, so some days I'll work on it and update the best I can, and some days I'll drop off the plant for a week or two so bear with me I do this for a living and it puts a real stain on me. But I love my job and love doing this so this is my hobby.

 

[Patattack]

View attachment 618754So here's the motor. A p pumped 4bt with a Chevy adaptor plate out of a UTZ van. I plan on using a th400 behind it for right now until I have for funds for a 4l80e or switch everything over to a build 47re we'll see what lays ahead on this.
View attachment 618757heres the trans I want to use, a rebuild th400 4x4 trans what goes behind a 6.2 so I already have the low stall torque converter with it.
View attachment 618758fire it up after I replaced the front and rear crank and main seals, fixed the KDP resealed the timing cover. Im going to have to order a new fuel pump fuel drains back and surges a little. The painted it gloss black, but the engine fires right up, doesn't smoke and has hardly any blow by. So I call this a score!!!!!

Next I test fit the engine in the frame already.... But I'll leave you hanging here tonite and post that stuff tomorrow. Can't do it all in one night!!!!

 

[gimpyrobb]

No pics?

 

[Patattack]

There was some lets try again

 

[Warthog]

Welcome back. Looks like a fun project

 

[CUCVLOVER]

Looks like fun.

 

[CUCVLOVER]

Welcome

 

[gimpyrobb]

Its amazing how much those weigh for such a tiny motor!

750lbs for a 4cyl vs 800lbs for a 6.5v8

 

[NovacaineFix]

the 6.5has 4 more holes in it , that's why it weighs less, lol

 

[ODFever]

I think your project is a pretty cool idea, especially if your M1009 has a dead engine! I have one question. You mentioned that if you want more speed and HP out of an M1009, you have to dump a lot of money into it. I agree completely about the HP - 130 isn't much. As for speed, I regularly cruise at 65-75 MPH in my stock M1009 with 31" wheels. I noticed that my fuel mileage gets exponentially worse above 70. I've done 85 MPH in my truck to get out of a potentially dangerous situation on the interstate. How fast do you plan on going? (Just curious. Please don't take this as a slam against you or your project.)

 

[Patattack]

Thanks warthog!!!!! Life took a crude ball and I had to grow up!!!! But it a real fun project!!!! Well to answer you question ODfever (by the way your not offending me I open to civilized discussions, questions are a good thing thats how we all learn!!!!)it's not about speed really its about the beautiful 325 ft lbs of torque at 1700 rpm with that 4.72 stroke. cummins b series motors are torque monsters that why people love them. They have all the bottom-end torque that you could ever want and more with free or cheap mods to the motor. 130 isn't much in a stock 4bt but 325 ft its of torque is!!!! And with a 17.5:1 compression ratio you run boost at 15-20psi safely. dont get me wrong I own a 3500 with a 6.5 in it its a start and go truck but I has it limits also. I the early days of diesel GM never built the engine to be a power house or torque monster it was a economy engine. But in my option adding power to a 6.2 is a waste of money to upgrade 21.5:1 compression ratio is pretty up there. a stock 6.5 set at 3-5 psi of boost and any thing over 10 you treading into some deep waters. The heads can't take it. So 260 or so of torque at 2k or 325 of torque at 17k. I was just tried of having not bottom end torque there gutless wonders. Plus this is a pretty cool project like they say you can put a cummins into anything!!!!!

 

[Patattack]

On to it!!! 2 days ago I test fitted the engine in the frame for the first time and ran into my first hump.... The front crossmember in front of the motor mounts needs to be lowed I already had it in my mind this was going to happen but I wasn't shocked when it did. P.S. It pays to know people that have a hoist and a engine bracket that they'll let you use them when ever you ask them!!!!!
.

so I grinded the rivets down and took it out. Already have an idea on what I want to do with it, so after it was removed i retested it and I went in pretty good. The trans is mounted in the rear and there about 2-3 inch gap between the firewall and engine. Now since gm adapters are clock 10 degrees (GM cheapness is showing!!!) the motor has a lean to it but it's till ok.

So I set the motor in the spot that looks square to me, centers 13 1/2 in both sides from center and about a 5-7 degree tilt, I'm going to leave th stock motor mounts in place and build the engine mount from the front to the frame mounts..

so the motor mount I'm choosing to use it anchor mount #2469 that the mount I found online that most people been using. So now I caught you all up on it and this is were I stand on it right now. Next I'll be modifying the front cross member and taking the frame mounts off and putting the mounts on then cutting up some cardboard to size up some engine mounts so stay tuned!!!!

 

[CUCVLOVER]

Looks good.
What did the engine come out of? Also why are you using a 4 BT instead of a 5.9 12 or 24 valve ? Just curious

 

[MilChevyguy]

Awesome thread already...keep us updated on the cost to do this....Im sure it would help sway some fence sitters!!

 

[Patattack]

6bt or 5.9 is longer and heavier by 300 lbs and 4bt is about the same weight and just a tad longer then a 6.2 so no serious mods to the frame and suspension have to be done with a 4bt and a th400 can handle the stock rating of a 4bt so no trans changes ether. But I already have a 2 inch lift on the truck so that helps with height issues too. So that's why just easier and less work to swap. Cost.... I got the motor fan clutch to adaptor plate for 2700 I had a John Deere that need a trans for 100 bucks put 400 into it and sold it for 2500 so the motor out of my packet cost me 700 not to bad in my opinion.

 

[Patattack]

Here's a vid of it running

 

[jarhead1086]

Cummins rattle and turbo spool, very cool. I have a 4BT being shipped and know it won't look as clean as this one. As-is in frame cut out. Its a 130 horse with an air to air intercooler. Hoping for no surprises. What turbo are you using? Fast spool. I want to mildly pep mine up without hurting gas mileage or longevity too much. I chose it over the 6BT for the same weight and package reasons. Thanks for sharing.

 

[ODFever]

I've never swapped any engine into any vehicle. Could you please explain to me why you have to tilt the 4BT at 5-7 degrees? What is a GM 10 degree clock adapter? Why is is the adapter set at 10 degrees?

 

[Warthog]

This is the story I have heard. When the Frito company wanted to repower their delivery trucks from the 6.2L/TH400 they approached Cummins for an answer. Frito wanted to do it as cheaply as possible. That being said they wanted to keep the TH400.

To make that transmission work Cummins had to come up with an adapter to match the bolt pattern on the engine and the bolt pattern on the transmission. The usual adapter was a SAE pattern like the ones used on the Deuce and other engines. That will not work with the TH400.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=4bt to th400 adapter

In order for it all to "fit" into the existing frame Cummins came up with an adapter plate and wave ring (connects the flywheel to the torque converter). The adapter plate cocks the engine a few degrees to allow for all the bolts to line up and fit the space.



If you look at the adapter plate you can see how the mounting holes are not level. The engine will tilt to the passenger side when the transmission is level. Many deisel websites discuss this issue.



While you can find TH400s and 4TB by the thousands, it is the adapter plate that makes it happen and can bring over $1K just by itself. Some aftermarket companies are now making adapters but they are still expensive.



YMMV.

 

[ODFever]

Thank you, Warthog! That makes sense. The pictures really help describe what's actually changing, and how the engine mounts have to be modified! I get the impression that it would be even more expensive to fabricate an adapter plate that has two separate bolt patterns - one to mount to the engine, and the other to mount to the transmission.