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M1009 alternator voltage step

jkoch17

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First post here. I've been reading for a while but there's always something new to learn. Thanks for the great resource and community. It's helped my father and I troubleshoot everything from a leaking fuel pump to glow plug controller issues to leaking rear main seal to heater core replacement, etc.... It seams just our luck that every common problem with these vehicles has effected ours and even so it comes with the ownership of a 25+ year old vehicle. I enjoy the hands on experience.

My father had recently started using the m1009 as his daily driver as it seemed we had all of the "kinks" worked out until this recent issue.

On a trip to work he discovered the #1 alternator was overcharging the #1 battery and overheating it. Stranded, he took it to a shop who charged him an arm and a leg to troubleshoot and replace the regulator in the #1 alternator (common issue on the m1009 as I have read here). He drove it home and the next day the voltmeter indicator in the dash raised to the white line separating the green from the red overcharging zone. He took it back to the shop that overcharged him in the first place and they replaced the regulator on the #1 alternator, again.

He called me up and I brought over a multimeter to check out what's going on. When you first start the vehicle the voltmeter indicator in the dash sets nicely in the middle of the green. Then when you give it a little gas the indicator jumps to the white line in between the green and red overcharge and remains there even when you let off of the gas. It's like a step function increase in voltage when you rev the motor. Here are the voltage readings:

Key in off position
Gen 1 = 13.25V
Gen 2 = 25.90V
Batt 1 = 13.24V
Batt 2 = 13.02V
Batt 1+2 = 26.0V

Blazer first started
Gen 1 = 14.65V
Gen 2 = 27.00V
Batt 1 = 14.64V
Batt 2 = 12.95V
Batt 1+2 = 27.4V

After reving the motor and letting off back to idle
Gen 1 = 14.68V
Gen 2 = 29.20V
Batt 1 = 14.65V
Batt 2 = 14.83V
Batt 1+2 = 29.30V

In addition, at idle the Gen 1 light comes on (dimmed about 50%). As you rev the motor it gradually dims even more until it is no longer lit. Then when you let off of the gas the light comes back on (dimmed to about 50%). The Gen 2 light has never worked since we bought the vehicle.

I checked the voltage going to the voltmeter in the dash after reving the motor (indicator on white line) and got 28.9V which wouldn't necessarily alarm me.

I've also read here that the Gen 1 light can be affected by the heater switch. We recently removed the blower motor to check its condition after it began to sound like there was something caught in the blower cage. Turns out the motor itself was just warn out and requires replacing (rotor has a bunch of play). We didn't have time to go get a new one so we put the old one back in place until we had a chance to replace it. I think it's highly unlikely that just unplugging the connection to the blower could have effected anything but I could be wrong.

I know the alternator issue has been beaten to death, but I haven't found the smoking gun for my situation. Does anyone have any incite into what's going on?

Thanks,
Jeff
 

llong66

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You say the gen 2 light has never worked, the #2 alt should not be working if the bulb is out, are you sure a PO has not monkeyed around with something?
 

cpf240

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I'm curious about the GEN 2 light as well. However, it should be noted that the voltmeter is as old as the truck is, and was never a precision instrument. There is a dropping resistor on the back of it to make the 12v meter read a 24v system. Either the gauge, or the resistor, or both, could be out of spec. If you are getting good readings with your DVM, I'd go with those readings rather than the voltmeter in the dash.
 

Skinny

Well-known member
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Location
Portsmouth, NH
GEN1 typically only glows during idle at full electrical load (heat, wipers, headlamps, etc.). Pretty normal and goes away as soon as you start driving. Even then it is pretty faint and really only notice it when dark out. GEN1 will light up or flicker if you have your idle speed set too low. Sounds like a little bump to the IP could do the trick. It really shouldn't glow with no electrical load at idle.

Good luck with GEN2
 

cucvrus

Well-known member
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Jonestown Pennsylvania
Just turn the key to on and reach up under the dash and jiggle the idiot lamps that may be all that is wrong. Pull them out and clean the contacts bend them forward and reinstall. Sometimes that works also. It is sure worth a try. Switch light 1 with light 2 and see if light 2 works in the first place.
 

jkoch17

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Florida
Gen 2 light works now after cleaning the contacts as cucvrus suggested.

The Gen 1 light is still on and dims when you give the engine some rpms. It also dims when you turn the headlights on and dims even more with the heater on (i.e. it actually dims with a higher electrical load).
 

Warthog

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Have you been to the CUCV Helpful Threads sticky?

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?123199-CUCV-Helpful-Threads

Here is one of the threads a fellow member posted

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?52821-Instrument-Cluster-Cleanup

Have you ever had the alternators rebuilt? Sounds like GEN1 may be due for a rebuild. The voltage regulator or diode-trio may be iffy.

From your first post it looked like GEN2 was not "exciting" because of the bad bulb. I have seen some alternators that will self excite after you spin them up. With the bulb working you should see a higher voltage on the rear battery at first startup.
 

jkoch17

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Florida
Thanks for all of the input. Looks like I have some more electrical contacts to clean.

FWIW the regulator was replaced twice on Gen 1. I'm not sure about the diode-trio.
 

Westech

CPL
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Location
cow farts, Wisconsin
yes the diode is the black wire. you can just plug it in and plug the stock plug in to it. It does come with a new truck side plug if the factory one is in need of replacing.
 

cpf240

Active member
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Location
Free in Northern Idaho
yes the diode is the black wire. you can just plug it in and plug the stock plug in to it. It does come with a new truck side plug if the factory one is in need of replacing.
Ok, but what is the purpose of that plug? Can't the stock one just be replaced with the white/red cable shown in the picture? It looks like the green/black one goes between the alt and the factory plug ( white/red in the picture )
 

DeeLoc13

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San Diego Called
Confused.... My m1009 alternators went bad. Bought 2 New ones that are both isolated ground. I have read that the passenger side alternator must be the isolated ground hook up. It appears that the wires on the driver side has the isolated ground connector not the passenger side. My cucv seems fine for now. Wil it effect anything? Or do I need to rewire everything? Someone please enlighten me. Thanks
 

cpf240

Active member
1,479
5
38
Location
Free in Northern Idaho
Confused.... My m1009 alternators went bad. Bought 2 New ones that are both isolated ground. I have read that the passenger side alternator must be the isolated ground hook up. It appears that the wires on the driver side has the isolated ground connector not the passenger side. My cucv seems fine for now. Wil it effect anything? Or do I need to rewire everything? Someone please enlighten me. Thanks
The military didn't want to stock two different alternators for the CUCV, so both are isolated ground alts. The drivers side alt, GEN1, has a connection from its ground stud to the top of the engine to provide the 12v for the front battery when referenced to the chassis ground. The passenger side alt, GEN2, has the *output* of GEN1 connected to its isolated ground stud so that GEN2s output is seen as 24v when referenced to the chassis ground. If GEN2 was not an isolated ground alt, and hooked up this way, there would be lots of sparks and melted wiring.
 

jkoch17

New member
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Location
Florida
Update:

I spent considerable time cleaning grounds and contacts. The Gen1 light still glowed dim and went away with RPM. All symptoms indicate a weak alternator except for the fact that when I read the output with a DMM I get 14.6-14.7 volts which is good and the battery is charging at the same voltage, so where is the voltage drop to light the idiot light?

I swapped the alternators left to right to try to isolate any wiring/ground issues. As expected, the Gen 1 light remains off and the Gen 2 light now glows and goes out with RPM increase. For reference, I consulted the pirate4x4 alternator bible. (Great reference but I'm not sure if we are allowed to post links to other forums here. Just google "pirate 4x4 alternator bible")

The regulator in the suspect generator has been replaced twice (my father had it replaced at a shop).

From my limited knowledge of alternator theory (and limited experience), a bad diode in the diode trio would cause a voltage drop in total output, which I am not seeing here.

But, the idiot light doesn't lie! How could it? It will only light if there is a potential across it causing current flow. What am I missing here?
 
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