M1009 Random starting issue

[w5ood]

My m1009 would not start the other day. It started great when I first got it, I have very few miles on it since I got it 8 months ago. It started every time. Then it slowly got harder to start. About three days ago it wouldn't start at all. Just turn over and over and then began puffing out white smoke. WTL is coming on as it should and going off, I tested my GPs which are new and they are around 1 ohm.

Just for grins I turned the key and it fired up with almost no crank time, scared the crap out of me.

Has anyone seen anything like this before. Im going through TMs now. I thought it was GPs and it might still be, but if anyone has experienced this before and can set me on a path to trouble shoot I would be great full.

Thx

 

[cucvrus]

It could be the glow plug relay at the master cylinder. It may have some slag or corrosion build up on the contacts and it will only effect it occasionally. When it happens check for voltage coming from the stud going to the glow plugs. Of course I am assuming the wiring has not been hacked and bypassed. If so it is as much help as I can give sight unseen. Good luck. Do your self a favor and don't hack every part out of the system that someone on line tells you to. But it's your rig do as you wish. Thank you.

 

[Rvitko]

Since it turns over I would lean toward fuel delivery or glow plugs. Does the Wait light on the dash come on during preglow? Do you see a dip in the voltmeter voltage during the preglow cycle? If not, the card or relay could be faulty as could the wiring. Also, a lot of the glowplugs tend to be crap, when I bought mine it had "brand new" wellmans or swellmans as you see them called here, my current AC 60G's have been in for 2 years and worked great, FWIW I measure .6-.8 Ohm on them. I had the same symptoms you described before I changed them. It would be useful to know the brand and type used and if the system is still the stock 24V with resistor or a 12V conversion. Hillbilly Wizard sells an updated card that has diagnostic lights, I have one installed and find it handy for that reason, my old card still worked and I keep it as a back up. I would check the fuel filter and you will eventually want to drop the tank and change the pick up strainer.

 

[w5ood]

Thank you all. I will check the GPs this weekend. I didn't install them so I have no idea what brand, but I want to get the AC 60G's after reading this site. It is a 24V system and as far as I can tell, nothing has been hacked up on it yet. Only the rust on the roof that was cut out :-/ . I do have a alt. that is on the driver side without isolated grounds, but that is the only thing out of place right now. I do see the power dip when I turn it on as far as I can tell and the WTL does come on as it should.

I have seen it come on randomly while it is running, come to think of it, and that has only happened recently.

This could be totally unrelated but before it finally stopped firing up the other day the pass. alt. is not getting its juice to the battery, I am also looking into that was well. I am getting 14v off the rear post in the back but only 12.5 at the battery when running. Just throwing that out there in case someone has seen it cause issues with starting, but I am betting it has no effect.

 

[Assel]

You should make sure all contacs are clean&good, everywhere! I had a bad contact at the busbar on the firewall + a chattering gp-relay and therefore no start. Same symptoms as you describe! Replaced it but it didnt run yet, controllercard was fried aswell... replaced that and no problems since!

there is a "no start" troubleshooting section in the tm´s, go thorugh that before replacing parts...

 

[w5ood]

Ill do that Assel, I dont mind trouble shooting, just thought maybe someone has seen this before and knew what to look for. I am getting good suggestions so I have some place to start. Thx

 

[Rvitko]

Get the charging issue resolved so you don't have to learn a lesson the hard way like I did. If your voltage gets low, the starter solenoid will weld the contacts and run on, you will then be in for a rough weekend of rebuilding a starter, two alts and replacing fusible links and two bats, it is also a scary thing to watch, the batteries shot molten lead and acid and you basically have to balls up to bring yourself to pry the terminals off fast. Ever since then, I got a new volt gauge and I watch it like my life depended on it.

 

[Rvitko]

Also, keep in mind that the gen lights and heater circuit are part of the charging, if the bulbs are missing, burned out or heater blower doesn't work, check that first.

 

[richingalveston]

the slow start over time is glow plug but the no start then sudden start is your fuel shutoff on the IP. It can stick shut and cause it not to start, eventually it opens but after the glow plugs have already cooled.

I bet your IP is going bad.

turn the ignition on and pull the pink wire on ip, you should here it operating. you can run a wire from front battery poss. term to the solenoid and make it operate also.

check for fuel delivery first and that starts with the IP solenoid. Then check you are getting fuel at injectors. if both are good, you have a glow plug problem.

 

[w5ood]

Ok I have been reading TMs and the boards. I keep reading that I need to hear clicking when I turn on the key. I do not hear any clicking at all, so does that mean my GP module is not working? Is that what should click, I think I need to step away from it for a few days LOL starting to all bleed together in my mind. I tested the pink wire on the IP and I do get 12 volts with the key on.

Maybe I am being dense here but if someone could tell me what should click and when it should click I would appreciate it. Right now I turn on the key and the wait light comes on and then goes off and its completely silent the entire time.

Thanks for the tips I feel like this truck is driving me nuts and at the same time I am getting more addicted to it.

 

[richingalveston]

the glow plug solenoid should be the loud click.
The Ip fuel solenoid you can hear with engine off and glow plug relay not operating.

run a wire from front batt to where the pink wire connects and just touch the terminal with the hot 12 volts with the pink wire removed, ignition off. you can hear it click when it opens.

you should have 12 volt on pink wire when ignition is on. check ignition fuse.

 

[Chief_919]

White smoke means you are getting fuel but it is not reaching ignition temperature. My bet is on your glow plug system having an intermittent fault, likely either the solenoid or a ground issue.

 

[german m1008]

I had the same issue.....the glow plug relay goes bad.... killed all 8 glowplugs.....
I have replaced the glow plug relay and the glow plugs and it starts like new.....

 

[richingalveston]

glow plug relay will not kill glow plugs.

The resistor on the firewall goes bad and causes the plugs to go bad.

with ignition on you should have power to glow plug relay and pink solenoid on IP. if you do not then find your power problem first.

Then check both solenoids if they both work, then go to cracking fuel lines to find out where the fuel is getting stopped.

also ohm check your glow plugs and make sure they are all good.

once relay is working and power is getting to plugs, with all plugs working you should read close to 12 volts on each one. if the voltage is higher then one or more are bad.

glow plugs are needed to get it to start and then it only take power to the iP solenoid to keep it running.

 

[german m1008]

I have a resistor bypass......The glow plug relay has hung and powered "all 8 glow plugs" to death.....

 

[richingalveston]

I have never had one hang, that is unusual but yes that will kill them.
OP is pretty new so I wanted him to be aware of the resistor and it association with killing glow plugs.

 

[w5ood]

Just wanted to let everyone know that I got her running again. I figured my parts are over 30 yrs old so I might as well just change out the GP relay. I never heard any clicking and I tested the IP where the pink wire goes, it would click off a jumper from the battery. I went ahead and installed the doghead starter relay since I was getting a new GP relay I just grabbed the starter relay as well. Took a little time but she cranks fine now.

I also took apart the dash due to my Gen. 2 light no longer working. The bulb was still good, I tried a new one just in case and it did not work either. Then I put the old bulb back in since it looks like new and I was getting tired. I turned the key and it lit up again. I guess it was dirty or had a bad connection.

Only concern I have now is Im getting 15.8v at the front battery when running for some reason and 14.3 at the rear which is normal. The volt meter inside is showing normal and it is right between the small green dash and the line before the red area. Looks like its perfect but the test out at the battery says its running high. I will look on the forum for post on that.

Getting it closer to road worth by the day, thanks for all the tips and direction!!!!