M1009 Starter Issues

[Stormer2000]

Hey all, I have been having strange issues with the starter on my M1009. Sometimes, when I turn the key to start it, engine cranks and fires up as normal, but sometimes, when I turn the key there's just a click from the solenoid, similar to a car with a dead battery. However, if I rotate the engine manually, and then try again, it will start like normal. I figured the flywheel was the cause so I replaced it, but still having the same issues. The starter is fairly new and the correct 24v unit, after the first one ran away and burnt out (yes, doghead mod done after that happened). All the mounting bolts are straight and the bracket is also in place and there is no damage to the block. I would point to a faulty starter, but I tested it off the truck and the solenoid engaged and the pushed out and turned without fault every time. New wires to the starter as well and tested so I know is getting proper voltage and the batteries are also good. I'm stumped. Thanks.

 

[nyoffroad]

You have a bad connection somwhere, might be inside the starter soliniod or inside the relay or somewhere else. Yeah I know thats not much help, but your on the right track. Don't forget the connection between the solenoid and the starter itself, I had one melt the silver soldered connection and it looked good but made poor contact.

 

[richingalveston]

check your engine block grounds. sounds like you have a loose ground

 

[Stormer2000]

Ground strap appears to be in decent condition, and connections aren't loose at all. Should I remove it and clean the connections anyway? Replace it entirely maybe? All connections to the relay seem solid. Same to connections to starter. Any other connections I should check? Also should mention when I tested the starter off the truck, I wired it up as it is on the truck (resting on front axle), just not bolted up, and it worked without fault.

 

[Stormer2000]

Put new grounds on the truck, but still no luck. There is a clicking sound coming from the flywheel area as if there's a loss bolt but it comes and goes and bolts still seem tight. Anyone else have any ideas?

 

[Tinstar]

I had a similar issue. ( I never manually rotated engine though).

Problem was the starter switch on top of the steering column.
One contact had gotten hot enough and melted the plastic, causing the intermittent issue.
When the plastic melted, the contact moved out of correct position.
Then it finally completely failed.

I installed a cheap part to get the truck running after purchase.
Replaced it after failure with an ACDELCO part and no issues since.
Mine never clicked when turning key, it just wouldn’t do anything.


I’ve also had the relay itself used in the Doghead modification fail.
Replaced the relay with exact same type relay and it’s been great ever since.


Just a thought

 

[Tinstar]

Put new grounds on the truck, but still no luck. There is a clicking sound coming from the flywheel area as if there's a loss bolt but it comes and goes and bolts still seem tight. Anyone else have any ideas?

Maybe the starter isn’t getting enough juice to fully engage?

 

[cucvrus]

After running thru this issue in my head for a day I think you have a bad starter. Would not be the first one I have seen where it has a starter that was poorly rebuilt or has a 12V solenoid or starter on it. Also I hope you are using M10 1.5 thread pitch metric bolts on the starter mounting bolts. 3/8" bolts will fit up in there and get tight but not retain tightness when the starter engages the flywheel and could jam the gear in the ring gear. Until you verify that you have a good operational starter and high cranking amp load tested batteries I would say you will just keep guessing. Make sure you have metric bolts, tight connections, good starter, and load tested batteries. After that you should be good to go. I know you said you tested the starter. Get it tested by a competent starter shop. I have worked on these trucks 30 years and never test any electrical items with a quick bypass/jump wires method. There is more to it than just throwing a few new parts into it and calling it rebuilt. But I have a trusty guy at the shop I deal with and he keeps me in good electrical stuff for all my needs. Good Luck report back. I hope you enjoy your Holiday weekend and this CUCV is not your daily driver.

 

[Stormer2000]

Well I went ahead and installed the tilt Column I had since it has all new switches. Same issue. However if you jump the starter directly from the main post to the solenoid it will turn over the engine without fail every time. Traced all wires from the relay to the starter and all seem good. I will try a new doghead relay, if that doesn’t work, would it be possible to install a push button start to just make that jump?

 

[cucvrus]

The more changes you make the more complicated the issue becomes. I always look at new trucks with issues as what have we installed on this truck that could have caused the problem. Many times I find a pinched wire or loose ground as the cause. But if you keep changing parts you are not solving the original issue. You are adding other parts in the equation. Do as you wish. I know it is frustrating and have been down this road many times. Most times I get the vehicles after someone else has dug into it and changed many things in a attempt to correct a minor issue. Good Luck. I hope you are able to locate the issue. But a word of advice. Stop adding different parts. Are you sure the tilt column has the correct switch on it? Not sure it could be incorrect. But 1 relay replacement cost our company over $6000. And it was because it fit in the plug and the installer knew no better and just plugged it in.

 

[Stormer2000]

Yes the tilt column switches are correct. I had it for sometime now replacing all the switches on it so I figured why not install to eliminate anything on the column being at fault. I am also against deviating from stock, especially electrical, so hopefully the replacement doghead relay does the trick.

 

[Stormer2000]

Replaced doghead relay with new one. Same issue.

 

[Stormer2000]

Any fusible links that possibly could’ve got damaged when the starter ran away in the beginning? Starter solenoid is getting power but not enough seems to be the issue, since with the key all it does it click, but with a direct jump from the main starter post it turns over.

 

[Tinstar]

Step back and take a deep breath.
Maybe even a day or two.

Start one wire at a time and check entire wire.
Each and every single one.
Relays and solenoid, etc.
The wiring is old and most certainly has corrosion, even Underneath the insulation.
Maybe ones busted inside but looks just fine on the outside. It’s happened.
Check connections, grounds and fuse links.
Make sure everything is hooked up correctly.


It will be a PITA, but necessary.
Still better than hacking into it for a push button glow plug control.

 

[snowtrac nome]

I would check to see if you are getting 24 volts to the switch wire on the solenoid it kind of sounds like the disc isn't making contact with the high amp contacts. If you have 24 volts at the switch terminal and at the battery terminal I would put my money on a bad starter.

 

[Stormer2000]

Should also be noted before the original starter ran away, it started just fine. After it ran away, I’ve had this issue with every starter I’ve tried. Leads me to think I the issue is something that burned up didn’t the runaway, causing a poor connection? New relay, new switches, new grounds, batteries tested good, starter functions with direct jump every time, and sometimes with the key but always a click from the solenoid. From under the vehicle with someone hits the key with the inspection plate removed, when the starter gear hits the flywheel it just stops, as if it doesn’t have enough power to continue pushing outward to make the gears mesh. However if the same thing is done with a direct jump, it functions as it should. Correct me if I’m wrong but this should mean my problem should be in between the starter solenoid, and the starter (doghead) relay? If so, what is the best way to trace that purple wire to the starter solenoid?

 

[snowtrac nome]

Start with your voltage 12 volts will energize the solenoid but it will be weak . it sounds to me like your only getting 12 volts to the solenid

 

[nyoffroad]

Start with your voltage 12 volts will energize the solenoid but it will be weak . it sounds to me like your only getting 12 volts to the solenid

^^ This, could it be as simple as you reconnected the battery's wrong and when you "jump" it it's correct? Or a bad connection IN the wire, use a voltmeter and check voltage NOT just a test light for power. Start at the front battery and work thru them one at a time.

 

[Stormer2000]

I am I looking for 24v to the starter solenoid?

 

[cucvmule]

What condition are the battery cables in? When you bend them do you hear a crackling, brittle, or looking at the ends do they look corroded or off color? Twist the ends of positive cables to feel for retention or looseness.

It sounds like you may have found the problem. Check the cables.

Fairly new starter? A starter solenoid will give the same symptoms. Have you replaced solenoid?