M1161/M1163/M1164(trailer) Documents

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Retiredwarhorses

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It’s an over engineered, too heavy, too complicated, drive like crap, under powered fiasco...the tax payers got taken on this one. The research will bear my opinions out. Parts are not easy to get, what you do find is incredibly expensive.
try finding halfshafts and shock/air bags from fox....mind, you...I haven’t spent a ton of time, but I’ve got part numbers on some items and still no bueno.
i have a lot of sources being i run a full military vehicle restoration business, but so far the easiest thing I’ve done is put fuel in the damn thing, accessing electrical for TS is a nightmare...
 

Retiredwarhorses

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As far as release sheet...I’ve been in the military 27yrs, never seen such a thing, at least not in my career fields,
operator manual are general distribution items, not a controlled item for a ground vehicle, nor is a parts manual, especially a 10yr old UTV.
 

W427

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...Parts are not easy to get, what you do find is incredibly expensive.
try finding halfshafts and shock/air bags from fox....mind, you...I haven’t spent a ton of time, but I’ve got part numbers on some items and still no bueno.
I see the frustration. I am having great luck, and it may be that I am not looking at it as military vehicle, but rather a custom off-road rig made with commercial parts. To me, that's what it is, and I'm finding everything I'm needing so far, from the Chevy 1500 master cylinder at the auto parts store for $58, to the bus air bags on Amazon at under $50 each in pairs, or $8 VW Golf fuel filters and $14 hood lift cylinders from RockAuto.

Suspension solenoids, wiper blades or mirrors - all commercial and orderable at generally much lower prices than military stuff. The axles are a custom mix of parts and infinitely rebuildable or repairable, and your local driveline shop can do it cheap if you give them the assemblies or the part numbers on the original components. The trick in all of this is to look at each little component for maker's marks, or use the NSN listings for some, and back-track it to what other vehicles it was used on. Chances are the part was also used on a million other cars, trucks or buses.

A lot of this stuff is being searched and investigated on growlerforum.com for one source of info. As to the wiring, it is again done like a custom hot rod, rock crawler or dune buggy, and it's all testable and repairable using standard methods. Having been in that business for years it's relatively easy for me, but could be a headbanger for others. I hope to see a service manual found soon, but will do my best to assemble some basics of the electricals as I work through mine in the coming months. I hope this helps, and hang in there!
 

Retiredwarhorses

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I see the frustration. I am having great luck, and it may be that I am not looking at it as military vehicle, but rather a custom off-road rig made with commercial parts. To me, that's what it is, and I'm finding everything I'm needing so far, from the Chevy 1500 master cylinder at the auto parts store for $58, to the bus air bags on Amazon at under $50 each in pairs, or $8 VW Golf fuel filters and $14 hood lift cylinders from RockAuto.

Suspension solenoids, wiper blades or mirrors - all commercial and orderable at generally much lower prices than military stuff. The axles are a custom mix of parts and infinitely rebuildable or repairable, and your local driveline shop can do it cheap if you give them the assemblies or the part numbers on the original components. The trick in all of this is to look at each little component for maker's marks, or use the NSN listings for some, and back-track it to what other vehicles it was used on. Chances are the part was also used on a million other cars, trucks or buses.

A lot of this stuff is being searched and investigated on growlerforum.com for one source of info. As to the wiring, it is again done like a custom hot rod, rock crawler or dune buggy, and it's all testable and repairable using standard methods. Having been in that business for years it's relatively easy for me, but could be a headbanger for others. I hope to see a service manual found soon, but will do my best to assemble some basics of the electricals as I work through mine in the coming months. I hope this helps, and hang in there!
So if you have part numbers, post them....95% of what you listed is of no concern in my case.
start creating a sticky with cross references for others....
The ITV was built as a COTS Vehicle, this is good and bad, as many components were from passenger vehicles
and not specifically engineered for the rough duty the ITV would be subjected too?
With over 30yrs in this Hobby/business, I’m no stranger on how NSN lookups work, that and 27yrs and counting in the service.
 

m1161

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Good point. @1978ford250 - is there a release sheet somewhere for those, allowing distribution?

Probably a subject for another thread, but as you brought it up - what about the platform is "crappy"? Keeping in-mind the needs of the Corps versus our uses - two different perspectives. From everything I'm finding, these are great little vehicles for private users, employing an assortment of well-proven, common and relatively inexpensive parts (except the engine :rolleyes:). I'm finding most things at the local auto parts store or discounted online. :cool:
The local parts store :>) True! But that starter isn't one of them! My 2012 M1161 is like new outta the box. Apparently the starter solenoid burned up before it ever got on the road. No wear on the pedals or any other parts. The starter was ordered thru Hercules in OH. Nice people. Then the order bounced because MWM doesn't supply the 24V starter. So I took the 12V one they do supply for the 4.07TCA diesel instead. Apparently the Denso (Japan) 24V starter was added at Gen. Dynamics locally possibly special order. I bought a look-alike 24V Denso from eBay. When the correct 12V starter arrives, I'll swap the 24V motor into the 12V motor position. Unfortunately, there were absolutely no part numbers on the broken original starter.
BTW, easily exchanged the gov't title for a NJ title, registered and insured in NJ.
 

Retiredwarhorses

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Starters..,I was told that 200 of these at auction have no starters...
the starter is a modified starter and hens teeth too find.
I just had this conversation with mike at Blackdog customs Monday, there is a special adapter on the nose cone area
on COTS starter to make it work in the BraziIan motor...
 

m1161

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Hackettstown NJ
Starters..,I was told that 200 of these at auction have no starters...
the starter is a modified starter and hens teeth too find.
I just had this conversation with mike at Blackdog customs Monday, there is a special adapter on the nose cone area
on COTS starter to make it work in the BraziIan motor...
Correct, there are two machined, stacked aluminum "plates" on the nose of the original starter that push the starter back from the adapter plate so the pinion gear mates with the ring gear. The big mystery has been what is the Denso part number for that starter? Then of course, you have to have those machined adapters to put onto the nose of the starter or make them yourself. I have them saved from the original burnt out starter. I understand the gearbox reduction unit on the Denso is made by Perkins. No part number on that either!
 

W427

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I haven't needed to investigate the starters yet, but did a little research for "what if". I found used and new 12V starters are fairly common in Europe, so I ordered a used Bosch (about $80 + $45 shipping) for a backup to rewire. I also took the info I had to a local electric motor repair shop, and he said a full rebuild (less drive gear if needed) would be about $80 also; so if you have a starter and it dies, rebuilding is the likely path. Re-winding a 12V version for 24V (or rewinding a burned 24V) would be about $100 to $140, so some of the cheap and common 12V versions as a source is also an option, like the one I ordered. To them it's not "special" - it's just another motor.

This is all a matter of discovering the sources and alternative options for each part, and once that hard part is done, it gets easy. I am finding most things on these are rebuildable, and probably the first option. The adapter block should be simple to diagram for replication, or easy to source (once known), as adapters for stuff like this (MWM-to-GM transmission starter block, probably the same as used in the GM S10 pickup) are common in the industry. We are reverse-engineering. That's common in certian industries such as heavy equipment. This is all new for us, and I know it's hard to be patient or grind through the research yourself (especially if you don't have one to look at), but we can get this done!
 

m1161

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Hackettstown NJ
I haven't needed to investigate the starters yet, but did a little research for "what if". I found used and new 12V starters are fairly common in Europe, so I ordered a used Bosch (about $80 + $45 shipping) for a backup to rewire. I also took the info I had to a local electric motor repair shop, and he said a full rebuild (less drive gear if needed) would be about $80 also; so if you have a starter and it dies, rebuilding is the likely path. Re-winding a 12V version for 24V (or rewinding a burned 24V) would be about $100 to $140, so some of the cheap and common 12V versions as a source is also an option, like the one I ordered. To them it's not "special" - it's just another motor.

This is all a matter of discovering the sources and alternative options for each part, and once that hard part is done, it gets easy. I am finding most things on these are rebuildable, and probably the first option. The adapter block should be simple to diagram for replication, or easy to source (once known), as adapters for stuff like this (MWM-to-GM transmission starter block, probably the same as used in the GM S10 pickup) are common in the industry. We are reverse-engineering. That's common in certian industries such as heavy equipment. This is all new for us, and I know it's hard to be patient or grind through the research yourself (especially if you don't have one to look at), but we can get this done!
 

m1161

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Hackettstown NJ
Just one other alternative I forgot to mention, It is possible to use a 12V starter, the one MWM in Brasil does supply by relocating the starter's feed cable to the tap between the two batteries. That cable can be found on the 200 amp. Klixon circuit breaker in the back near the compressor. However the 24V to the solenoid would have to be rewired from the "keying relay" under the instrument panel. There is 12V in that cluster of relays and the wiper contact on that relay could be repositioned to a 12V source. One would certainly not want to send 24V to the 12V solenoid ! I like to keep it "original".
 

dalkelly

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Hey gents,
I thought I'd start this thread for the collection of documentation. I have a PDF version of the official USMC TM but I cannot distribute it yet without the okay from higher to do so. There is a cover sheet that specifically prohibits the distribution of this TM (for whatever reasons) which probably explains why most of them were destroyed and not sent with the vehicles to auction. I'm still in the Corps and have access to the TM database but I have to respect the rules regarding distribution.
I can relay what info I find and post some screenshots of specific parts of the TM manual so if any of you are in desperate need of something, in particular, let me know. The TM for the growler is 600 pages long and there's tons of good info.
I'll post the basic specs here that come from the TM. I will upload whatever documents I can as I find them.
Cheers
 

M813rc

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Regardless of obsolescence or availability of manuals outside the service, if the Marine Corps said distribution is restricted and has not rescinded that, then they are technically still restricted and an active Marine will find himself in very hot water for releasing the Marine Corps manuals without authorization.

Same goes for the Army - there are manuals for equipment long out of service on Logsa, but they have never been officially released thus cannot be downloaded by us mere mortals.

Cheers
 

Retiredwarhorses

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Regardless of obsolescence or availability of manuals outside the service, if the Marine Corps said distribution is restricted and has not rescinded that, then they are technically still restricted and an active Marine will find himself in very hot water for releasing the Marine Corps manuals without authorization.

Same goes for the Army - there are manuals for equipment long out of service on Logsa, but they have never been officially released thus cannot be downloaded by us mere mortals.

Cheers
after 27yrs in the service and still serving...I’m well aware of how it works.
but the paper copies aren’t going to suddenly change from a restricted classification to unrestricted by some form of majic. The mfg is distributing the documentation unrestricted.
its a COTS vehicle.
 

1978ford250

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M813rc you hit the nail on the head. Even Crystal (the contact at GrowlerMe) had to obtain permission to distribute the manual. She is clearly more connected to the people who make these decisions than I am and I am thrilled that she was able to obtain permission do distribute. I was directly instructed not to distribute the manual and so I will not be doing so. I’m not here trying to make a buck off of it which should be clear at this point. I don’t think GrowlerMe is trying to make money off of it either because they are charging only $15 for a copy which is a killer deal.
The Marine Corps is much more stingy about the distribution of its manuals than the other branches, to the point where TM’s are often hard to obtain by the Marines who need them. There is a portal that works some of the time but hardly anything regarding the Growlers is listed there.
The Marine Corps destroyed the physical manuals as part of the demil process, which even further proves they didn’t want them available to the public. Again, its fantastic that GrowlerMe has received permission to distribute the manual to everyone. The difference is if any brass get salty about its distribution it wont come back on me and there’s not a lot they can do to GrowlerMe for taking the responsibility.
I’ve not been in the military for 27+ years but I’ve certainly been in long enough to know how to watch out for my career, not to mention respect the rules of the military, even if I think they’re stupid or outdated. Believing that we should be allowed, by default, to distribute a document simply because a vehicle or weapons system has been removed from the system is a rationalization at best and one that suits our own end goals.
While I personally don’t see any tactical reasoning in forbidding the distribution of the manual, that is not my determination to make. Imagine a military comprised of individuals with security clearances who think they can decide when a document can be made public on a whim or when it suits them. I guess that’s also why the vast majority of military members don’t/can’t hold security clearances🤔
 

W427

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Seattle, WA area
The local parts store :>) True! But that starter isn't one of them! ...
I think I've identified the original starter application, and waiting for another owner to verify fit and function is correct. About $100 new for the complete 24V starter and solenoid, including shipping. You bolt the special ITV adapter/nose onto it, as shown in @1978ford250's documentation. Cross your fingers!
 

m1161

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I think I've identified the original starter application, and waiting for another owner to verify fit and function is correct. About $100 new for the complete 24V starter and solenoid, including shipping. You bolt the special ITV adapter/nose onto it, as shown in @1978ford250's documentation. Cross your fingers!
My starter solenoid was fried. I ordered up a new, original $29 24V solenoid on eBay and refitted it to the original starter motor and back in business. The "nose" on this starter is unique. I couldn't find a geared starter to match it anywhere. Don't lose any of the parts!! The gear train has a unique "middle" gear that wants to fall out and the bearings go everywhere! I know. The starter was made in Japan.
 
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