M135 spit'n and sputter'n

[Greensteel37]

As far as we know, the power valve is fine. The regulator is set at 3psi. We have had the "bowl" off the top and when we throw the switch, we can see the fuel bowl fill and the float stop it.

What does the manual show for a float level? I think that he has it set for 3/4" below the level of the casting.

The distributor has been rebuilt in the last couple of months. New points and condensor which he has been checking for burns and adjustment.

I've got to search and see if there is a source for that manual.

 

[73m819]

what about a cracked distributor cap or bad wires, crossed wires, or 180 deg out( will try to start but will backfire out the carb and exaust. The fireing order is 153624, try CHANGING the plug wires -#1 for #6, #5 for #2 and #3 for #4

 

[Greensteel37]

I passed on the note about the distributor. He's going to try to swap it around 180' or change the plug wires.

 

[73m819]

Id try changing the wires first

 

[badgmc56]

Go back to base engine checks. Sounds like you may have weak and or broken valve springs. Pull off the valve cover and give the springs a good visual check over. Look at them closely and a lot of times you can find a broken one.

 

[butch atkins]

TM 9-1826D says for float level setting CLOSED is 5/32 below main bodysurface without gasket,shows picture of a special guage ,but gives 5/32 dim in data page for carb ,hope this helps,keep posting

 

[Greensteel37]

He's already had the valve cover off and the springs are OK. He changed out the distributor cap and it acted differently but still would not start. He swapped the wires and it did nothing at all. No fire. So he changed them back. Now it trys again.

Ok, here's the question on the float level. May seem dumb but I'm used to civilian carbs on classic Fords.

My buddy has been setting the float level to achieve a gas level in the bowl of 3/4 of an inch below the main surface. That seemed odd but I guess that was the only way to set it for him.

Now you say 5/32nd below the surface. Is that gas level or measured off of a spot on the float itself?

I'm used to measuring between the "top" of the float and the surface. It's not necessarily the same on this odd carb.

Make sense??

 

[73m819]

did the spit and sputter just start on its own or after some maintenance

 

[butch atkins]

the pic that the TM shows shows a hand holding a t shaped gauge from the flat top surface of the center of the carb between the floats,to the top surface of the side of the carb body ,without the gasket,if you have this at 3/4 inch you are way off,with the float raised all the way up,this CLOSES the fuel supply off,from the top of the rearmost portion of the float to the top of the main body casting is 5/32 inch,wish i knew how to scan this into computer so you could see,i am computer illiterate,dont know about 3/4 inch of gas in the bowl but,the pic shows from the flat top to the top of the float at the rear of the float [fartherst point from inlet needle valve],and in this pic this is done with no fuel in the bowl,keep posting,you are correct in measuring from the top of the float to the carb body surface,on this carb the TM says 5/32 inch,good luck

 

[Greensteel37]

did the spit and sputter just start on its own or after some maintenance

Originally the truck would run and then just quit until it cooled off. We eventually decided that dirty fuel filters were causing the civilian 24v pump to overheat and quit. After the fuel filters were replaced, it ran good.


Then he decided that if the filter was that dirty, perhaps the carb needed looking at since he'd had the truck for ten years and never overhauled it. He took it apart and discovered it was very dirty and he cleaned it out and reassembled it. He did not have a carb kit at the time so he just cleaned everything and put it back together.

For the first few minutes, it ran better than it ever had. He took it back home and washed it to drive it to a old car cruise in at a local Walmart. He hadn't driven three miles when it started to miss and sputter. He turned around and that's the state it's been in since.

We got the carb kit from a member here on SS and it was fairly fresh, being from the '80s. But the gaskets were not as thick as the original ones. Several of the brass parts were not like the ones in the carb. We've used as many parts as we can.

We have had a persistent gas seepage from where the bowl cover meets the gaskets over the fuel bowl. We've had to reuse the gaskets again since the kit ones tore the first time we took it back apart to adjust the float level.

So he's at the point of giving up for this year. No one in our club owns one of these so there's no local person to lay hands on it. I've considered getting a take-out carb from Alfa and see if that helps any.

 

[Greensteel37]

the pic that the TM shows shows a hand holding a t shaped gauge from the flat top surface of the center of the carb between the floats,to the top surface of the side of the carb body ,without the gasket,if you have this at 3/4 inch you are way off,with the float raised all the way up,this CLOSES the fuel supply off,from the top of the rearmost portion of the float to the top of the main body casting is 5/32 inch,wish i knew how to scan this into computer so you could see,i am computer illiterate,dont know about 3/4 inch of gas in the bowl but,the pic shows from the flat top to the top of the float at the rear of the float [fartherst point from inlet needle valve],and in this pic this is done with no fuel in the bowl,keep posting,you are correct in measuring from the top of the float to the carb body surface,on this carb the TM says 5/32 inch,good luck

I read your message above to him and he thinks he has it set correctly but it doesn't make a difference. Timing is correct too.

 

[OSO]

I have an old Case 440 tractor . When I need it to clean the barn in January I start it up and runs like water in the gas, stumbles ,backfires . I found out that by replacing the condensor ,it runs fine. This has happened about 3 times in the last ,12 years . I have put in new points and condensor at the same time , kits from Case tractor dealer marked with there brand. Puzzles me why just the condensor goes south, the key in not left on,when parked. I use the tractor about 3 times a month.

 

[73m819]

"We eventually got it to start backfiring out the exhaust and finally out of the carb on the same attempt to start"
RUNNING LEAN.

"This whole unpleasant episode started months ago when he changed the fuel filter. It ran great for about a day and the started to spit and sputter. Since then it has been downhill."

This is what I was asking, does not make sense that the other stuff will crap out after a filter change, it is SUCKING air or a fuel blockage. look for dirt in the fuel line and fittings from the filter to the carb, a nick in a gasket, a crack, especially in the filter housing or fitting that opens up when it get warm, GO OVER THE WHOLE AREA WITH A MICROSCOPE

GOD knows whats wrong now with ALL the THINGS that had been done to it

REMEMBER KISS

 

[Greensteel37]

I agree and I'll urge him to go back over the fuel system again. He could just have another blocked fuel line.

Thanks!

 

[dragonwagon]

I have an old Case 440 tractor . When I need it to clean the barn in January I start it up and runs like water in the gas, stumbles ,backfires . I found out that by replacing the condensor ,it runs fine. This has happened about 3 times in the last ,12 years . I have put in new points and condensor at the same time , kits from Case tractor dealer marked with there brand. Puzzles me why just the condensor goes south, the key in not left on,when parked. I use the tractor about 3 times a month.

This is probable a coil issue , the coil and condensor must be working together . Coil has a primary and secondary winding that work differently in some coils . I bought a new coil , points condensor for my 68 jeep dauntless . It drove me nuts for a week . The coil simply would not work with that condensor . Bought a " standard " brand coil and no more issues .

 

[waayfast]

Hey ,I'll just throw this out there.Years ago my father-in- law(at that time) had a very dependable Suburban that started to give NIGHTMARES after a normal tune up was completed for him by a usually very good mechanic.

VERY long story short -----after months of wasted time and throwing hundreds of dollars at this thing we found out that during a fuel filter change (or fuel pump-can't remember which--long time ago-)someone used a single roller bearing pushed into the fuel line to stop the flow while changing the part---got side tracked and forgot to pull the "stopper"before replacing the fuel line.
Did not just plug it completly but rather seemed to move around to cause an EXTREME case of the ol' INTERMITTANT failure.
I swear this ordeal took years of the ol' boy's life.

Maybe you got an old fuel line that is degrading and coming apart inside and blocking fuel flow.

Hope this drivel helps-GOOD LUCK!
Jim

 

[OSO]

Years ago,about 1983 we had a dodge 318 3/4 ton pickup truck,for a shop vehicle. That thing started to run rough traced it down to the rotor ,under dist cap. replaced that and ran like a top.

 

[Greensteel37]

Thanks guys for the continued advise. I think the fuel system is still not kosher....even though he cleaned the filter way back when the trouble started, he must have some crap in there.

 

[supermechanic]

I was called in to survey a stationary engine, it had caused no end of problems to the owner.
Backfiring when hot, won't accept a load, generally, it was fubar.
Owner changed just about every thing imaginable, still ran like crap.
He went to the extent of pulling the head, and having the valves redone, still same problem.
I scratched my head a few times over this, there was no reason why this engine shouldn't run, what was the problem?
No less than four skilled mechanics had this problem in their sights, and all of them were getting frustrated.

In the end, it was found the spark plugs had been changed inadvertently to a much hotter heat range ( if memory serves, the plugs had a similar number, but were from a different manufacturer).

A very expensive lesson was learned by all in attendance.

This happened almost 25 years ago and is still fresh in my mind.

'simple' problems can cause big headaches.

 

[ncduece]

plug the spark plugs see if they are black if so they are gas fouled and will cause the problems you are having i.e the carb is running rich maybe flooding, they can also gas foul from a weak spark. i would check the voltage to the coil first, then condenser, alot of problems that act fuel related could be a weak spark. what color is the spark? spark first then fuel.