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M35a2 knock

TAZZJR

Member
67
99
18
Location
Baytown Texas
The motor of my m35a2 has developed a load hard knock. I have done about a week of testing to narrow down what could be the cause of the problem. I was able to drive the truck over an hour to get it home without the noise increasing in volume or rhythm. The knock is only once every four strokes and not twice every four strokes. The noise seems to come from the exhaust side of #3 cylinder.

I decided to check each injector by loosening the supply fule line and listening to the motor. I found that the knock goes away when I loosen the #3 cylinder injector supply line. As soon as I tighten the line and pressure returns the knock also returns. This can be done with a 90° turn of the wrench between not knocking and fuel spraying, and a closed fitting and the knock returning.

At this point I swapped #3 and #5 injector to see if the noise would follow the injector. The noise stayed in #3 cylinder and no additional noise was made. I swapped #3 and #5 injector again this time make 100% sure that I was actually swapping them and not making a stupid mistake. The result was the same.

Next I removed the valve cover and checked my rocker arms there was a noticable amount of play in the rocker arms of #3 cylinder. I adjusted all of the rocker arms. There was no change in the noise. I also inspected the flow of oil up and through the rocker arms. There was good flow with no problems the the bearings.

Next I checked the push rods and lifters of #3 cylinder. The push rods were true and did not seem to suffer from impact. The lifter of exhaust valve came up and out of its hole while I was inspecting the push rod. I was able to turn the lift of the exhaust valve over and take pictures of it and a few of the cam with the valve cover off. I would not suggest anyone do this intentionally. To get the lifter back in place with out taking the motor apart at this point is a nerve wracking experience and requires an extendable magnetic on flexible metal hose, a cut of coat hanger wire with a 1/2 in 90° turn in the end, a large flat head screw driver to prevent the lifter from jumping to the other cylinders, a flashlight and to lay on your stomach ontop of the truck for a few hours.

After a week of work I put the truck 100% back together, prayed, and turned it on. The motor still ran, the knock was still present.

My only two ideas of what it could be now is a damaged valve or a blown head gasket.

I believe I need to do a pressure test on it now. I'm not sure how to go about this.

Any advice would be appreciated.
 

ToddJK

Well-known member
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Location
Sparta, MI
If it's a head gasket causing the knock, then it's do to coolant getting in the cylinder. If it's burning white smoke and/or your coolant is disappearing but no coolant leaks, that's a good indication. Might not be a bad idea to check the crank bearings on that cylinder and the rod, won't hurt if you're gonna start tearing into it. If it's not a head gasket, not a push rod, my only guess is either the intake or exhaust valve, but I don't think you can service those anyway unless you pop the head off in which case, a new head gasket. If you're not losing coolant or eating oil, I'd be suspecting one of those valves. I rebuilt a multi-fuel before, but mine didn't have that knock like that, mine had a bent push rod that caused the knock and then the head blew. Two years later it developed a knock and it wouldn't even start but I didn't have the time and place to fix it so I sold it on here. Hopefully one of the multi-fuel gurus on here will chime in for a more accurate assessment...
 

smoke

Active member
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Location
oxford,pa
I know you said you swap injectors etc.... But if the injectors were not pop tested who to say injector 5 is adjust properly either. Take all the injectors out, clean the tips adjust psi to proper setting and pop test them. Should have a good spray pattern, no dripping off tip, hold psi, and have a good chatter sound. You may have a drippy injector etc. Also, Are you running just diesel in it or alterative fuel? Sometimes using mixes other than 100% diesel can change the sound of the engine.
 

smoke

Active member
214
90
28
Location
oxford,pa
You never said anything about your oil pressure and temp of the engine after developing the knock. Did they change (overheating now low oil pressure)? With a compression ratio of i think 22:1. Any change in fuel delivery will change the sounds you hear from the engine. Also agree with @david56 if push comes to shove drop the pan and look. But if oiler or bearing issue you would have seen a change in oil pressure.
 

davidb56

Well-known member
1,020
1,237
113
Location
Bonners Ferry Idaho
You never said anything about your oil pressure and temp of the engine after developing the knock. Did they change (overheating now low oil pressure)? With a compression ratio of i think 22:1. Any change in fuel delivery will change the sounds you hear from the engine. Also agree with @david56 if push comes to shove drop the pan and look. But if oiler or bearing issue you would have seen a change in oil pressure.
Yea , the swap of the injectors and the same cylinder making a knocking noise, and not a tappet noise, requires some deeper investigation. If the oiler failed by being plugged up, and the piston pin didnt get oiled, then the oil pressure "may" stay the same?
 

TAZZJR

Member
67
99
18
Location
Baytown Texas
You never said anything about your oil pressure and temp of the engine after developing the knock. Did they change (overheating now low oil pressure)? With a compression ratio of i think 22:1. Any change in fuel delivery will change the sounds you hear from the engine. Also agree with @david56 if push comes to shove drop the pan and look. But if oiler or bearing issue you would have seen a change in oil pressure.
I never saw a change in oil pressure. My thermostat doesn't always work but I check my fluids often. The radiator always has the same antifreeze green.
 

TAZZJR

Member
67
99
18
Location
Baytown Texas
I hate to say it but it sounds like a bad wrist pin bearing. A rod bearing would sound more at the bottom. Pull your oil filters and see if there’s some metal in there. If you don’t see anything in there. Drain the oil and check the magnets on the plugs.
Would a wrist pin bearing knock when I take pressure off of the cylinder by removing fuel to the injector?
 

ToddJK

Well-known member
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4,518
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Location
Sparta, MI
Would a wrist pin bearing knock when I take pressure off of the cylinder by removing fuel to the injector?
Have you tried it? Depends on how bad that bearing is shot. Not that it may not knock when there is no load on it (compression/combustion)
 

smoke

Active member
214
90
28
Location
oxford,pa
I never saw a change in oil pressure. My thermostat doesn't always work but I check my fluids often. The radiator always has the same antifreeze green.
Do you mean your temp gauge doesn't work? If it doesn't, I get that fixed right away. You don't want to cook the engine. Also tells if the antifreeze is circulating, etc.... You could be running hot and not know it because it not push fluid.
Would a wrist pin bearing knock when I take pressure off of the cylinder by removing fuel to the injector?
Yes, more than likely it still would knock but not as loud. Slop (clearance) is extra movement and more noise.
 

rustystud

Well-known member
9,298
3,074
113
Location
Woodinville, Washington
Drop your pan and check the rods soon ! They came out with an improved rod bolt (twelve point) since the original ones had a tendency to stretch too much. Hopefully if it is the rod bolts, you have caught it before you did any damage to the crank or rod or bearings.
It is extremely difficult to check for engine knock in diesels, so the usual method of hearing the knock twice in a rod or piston doesn't apply. Any knock is suspect.
 

TAZZJR

Member
67
99
18
Location
Baytown Texas
Between work and night school I haven't had as much time to get into the motor as normal. I was able to do a few tests on the top end and I found this.



I'm pretty sure it's the front head gasket blowing between the 2 heads.
 

williamh

Well-known member
472
651
93
Location
SanDiego Ca.
Between work and night school I haven't had as much time to get into the motor as normal. I was able to do a few tests on the top end and I found this.



I'm pretty sure it's the front head gasket blowing between the 2 heads.
That would be way better than a bad bearing
 

rustystud

Well-known member
9,298
3,074
113
Location
Woodinville, Washington
Between work and night school I haven't had as much time to get into the motor as normal. I was able to do a few tests on the top end and I found this.



I'm pretty sure it's the front head gasket blowing between the 2 heads.
Head gaskets going out don't make knocking sounds. It' more of a "PFFFT" sound . I would still drop your oil pan and check the rod bolts.
 

TAZZJR

Member
67
99
18
Location
Baytown Texas
Update.

I cleaned the heads and had them resurfaced.
I went to put them back on noticed all of my heads have small surface cracks around the cut out sections.

I have bagged the heads and brought them In the house. I also sprayed wd40 in t shirts and stuffed the cylinders, and bagged the motor.

I'm currently doing some research, pricing, and have a guarge sale lol.

My current plan is to drop the pan and push rods out the top.
 

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