M35a2 oils

[Another Ahab]

Regular STP oil treatment has zinc, is available everywhere, and is cheap.

I've seen it on the shelf at all the local 7-11's in our area:

- Oh Thank Heaven...

 

[Tracer]

Rustystud. With the Rotella T Synthetic do you notice more oil leaks. I'm using the regular Rotella T and would like to try the synthetic as long as my weeps don't turn into leaks.

 

[rustystud]

Not to muddy the waters here but I have owned two vehicles that use engine oil in the manual gear boxes.

The Daimler Dingo uses SAE 30 (OE HD30) in the gear box. A wilson pre-selector manual transmission.
The Transfer case uses SAE 50 (OE HD50). That's a differentiual and forwards/reverse selector box (rather than high-low ratios) thus giving 5 speeds forwards and 5 in reverse.

The Daimler Ferret uses SAE 30 (OMD-110) in the Gearbox, also a Wilson Pre-selector.

These ARE rather unusual manual gear boxes though. So rather an odd case/rebuttal point.

Here's some details on the gear boxes. http://www.ferret-fv701.co.uk/engine_and_gearbox.htm

Those transmissions use "planetary" gears for reduction instead of "helical" or "spur" gears or even "herring bone" gears like "normal" transmissions use. You actually would be better served using ATF in them since basically their automatic transmissions without the "automatic" part. The clearances are the same as an automatic transmission. This is not a good transmission to use for any rebuttal.
Your comparing "apples" to "walnuts" here ! Notice I didn't use oranges as it is so far out there it isn't even close to oranges. Plus their English and everyone knows their crazy. Remember the saying "mad dogs and Englishmen" .

 

[rmgill]

Well, you DID type "manual gear box". And they ARE manual. But yes, they are oddly different. Hence my not trying to muddy the waters. In fact i'm trying to make sure we clear them as much as possible.

The Transfer box on the dingo DOES use bevel gears (can't recall if they're helical or not though). And that had specification for SAE50 engine oil.

The details here should be that we need to underscore that the types of gears in the Deuce Transmissions with their spiral/helical cuts are important to the types of gears. Not just what we use them in, but what's in the gear box that necessitates their use or not use (in the case of the EP sulfur additives where yellow metal cages and other parts may be).

I have the WWII Humber and I've had to repeatedly show some of our guys in our WWII group the importance of yellow metal safe gear oils on these vehicles.


And as to crazy, word is that supposedly hand full of Daimler Dingos captured in the Battle of France by the Germans had them quite confused for a while as to what the heck was happening in the transmissions. Once they figured them out they liked them a great deal. The British Daimler being to Buick what Rolls is to Cadillac, with both of the British manufacturers having a very high degree of expectation of craftsmanship and engineering. A well tuned Ferret engine can idle with a coin on it's edge on the manifold cover (A rolls design).

 

[rmgill]

Just to be clear, relating to zinc, we want more of that in our engine oils now? Are we not getting enough in the standard 15w40s like Rotella?

 

[Another Ahab]

The details here should be that we need to underscore that the types of gears in the Deuce Transmissions with their spiral/helical cuts are important to the types of gears. Not just what we use them in, but what's in the gear box that necessitates their use or not use (in the case of the EP sulfur additives where yellow metal cages and other parts may be).

I have the WWII Humber and I've had to repeatedly show some of our guys in our WWII group the importance of yellow metal safe gear oils on these vehicles.

Here's the part that I don't get (like you care, right?), but:

- I understand that "yellow metal" gears will need a different oil than steel gears, sure (soft metal vs not-so-soft metal)

- But regarding how the gears are cut, like why would the oil "care" (sort of "how do it know").

Is it because of the tolerances in the meshing of the gears, is THAT it?

 

[rustystud]

Here's the part that I don't get (like you care, right?), but:

- I understand that "yellow metal" gears will need a different oil than steel gears, sure (soft metal vs not-so-soft metal)

- But regarding how the gears are cut, like why would the oil "care" (sort of "how do it know").

Is it because of the tolerances in the meshing of the gears, is THAT it?

The clearances have a lot to do with it, also how different weights of oil react under pressure. When you have a "grinding" pressure like what is exerted by helical gears you need a oil that can take the pressure and not get squished out. Now that is a very simplistic explanation. I'm sure my old instructor would get all technical talking about "coefficients of friction" and other gobbly gook, but basically that's what's happening.

 

[rustystud]

Just to be clear, relating to zinc, we want more of that in our engine oils now? Are we not getting enough in the standard 15w40s like Rotella?

No. Since the oils must meet the new "EPA" standards they basically eliminated Zinc since it wrecks havoc on catalytic converters. All engines use oil in the combustion process.

 

[rustystud]

Well, you DID type "manual gear box". And they ARE manual. But yes, they are oddly different. Hence my not trying to muddy the waters. In fact i'm trying to make sure we clear them as much as possible.

The Transfer box on the dingo DOES use bevel gears (can't recall if they're helical or not though). And that had specification for SAE50 engine oil.

The details here should be that we need to underscore that the types of gears in the Deuce Transmissions with their spiral/helical cuts are important to the types of gears. Not just what we use them in, but what's in the gear box that necessitates their use or not use (in the case of the EP sulfur additives where yellow metal cages and other parts may be).

I have the WWII Humber and I've had to repeatedly show some of our guys in our WWII group the importance of yellow metal safe gear oils on these vehicles.


And as to crazy, word is that supposedly hand full of Daimler Dingos captured in the Battle of France by the Germans had them quite confused for a while as to what the heck was happening in the transmissions. Once they figured them out they liked them a great deal. The British Daimler being to Buick what Rolls is to Cadillac, with both of the British manufacturers having a very high degree of expectation of craftsmanship and engineering. A well tuned Ferret engine can idle with a coin on it's edge on the manifold cover (A rolls design).

I know it's a good design and "Linko" race transmissions are basically the same thing. I just like saying "mad dogs and Englishmen" !

 

[Aussie Bloke]

G'day everyone,....

They basically eliminated Zinc since it wrecks havoc on catalytic converters.

Is this really an issue since these vehicles don't have catalytic converters?
If these engines will benefit from a little extra zinc added to its oil surly that's a must at every regular service.

Just my thoughts.



Aussie.

 

[Another Ahab]

I know it's a good design and "Linko" race transmissions are basically the same thing. I just like saying "mad dogs and Englishmen" !

Oh, yeah?

Well try saying it:

- Ten times, REAL fast

- With a mouthful of Fish-and-Chips!


https://youtu.be/KF7IZhImHn8

 

[rustystud]

G'day everyone,..


Is this really an issue since these vehicles don't have catalytic converters?
If these engines will benefit from a little extra zinc added to its oil surly that's a must at every regular service.
Just my thoughts. (QUOTE)



It's just cheaper for the oil manufacturers to make one type of product instead of many for basically a "fringe" market. Since all roller cam engines including diesels can use the newer oils why make one special for us ?

 

[Aussie Bloke]

G'day everyone,....


Sorry if I was misunderstood, I am suggesting is it really a big issue to add a zinc additive when we do the oil changes if it will benefit so much?

Sorry if it was the way I phrased it.



Aussie.

 

[Another Ahab]

G'day everyone,....


Sorry if I was misunderstood, I am suggesting is it really a big issue to add a zinc additive when we do the oil changes if it will benefit so much?

Sorry if it was the way I phrased it.

Aussie.

It's no problem, Aussie Bloke.

It wasn't the way you phrased it.

It's just that you typed it WITH an accent (made it hard for some of us to understand).

 

[rustystud]

It's no problem, Aussie Bloke.

It wasn't the way you phrased it.

It's just that you typed it WITH an accent (made it hard for some of us to understand).

I see your in fine form lately Ahab ! Between the "fish and chips" and accent's you got me laughing pretty good lately !

 

[rustystud]

G'day everyone,....


Sorry if I was misunderstood, I am suggesting is it really a big issue to add a zinc additive when we do the oil changes if it will benefit so much?

Sorry if it was the way I phrased it.



Aussie.

I'm sorry I misunderstood Aussie Bloke, and yes it was your heavy accent (or maybe my early dementia !) that got in the way!
The answer is "Yes" it makes a huge difference, if you consider loosing your cam lobes a major problem. The cam is where the most wear occurs. Since almost all engines today are using roller cams (even little lawn mower engines) there is no need for the extra Zinc. Just us collectors of old equipment that need this. The '900' (cummins engine) 5 tons do not need to worry since they also use roller cams, it's just us "Multifuel" engine users that have to be concerned.

 

[Aussie Bloke]

G'day everyone,....


Its gems of information like this about the additive that I am (selfishly) after now I have a Multifuel of my own.
No matter the idiosyncrasy's I want to learn how to keep it running for as long as possible trouble free.


Though I come from a family of engineers mostly aeronautical but some automotive and have learned everything I know from them I don't claim to know everything, I still like to learn MORE!


Keep the info coming!




Aussie.

 

[frank8003]

Might have to swap the Rotella T to Rottella T6 next time around.
T6 is not recommended for many engines due to the high phosphate level within the ZDDP.
Still learning here how about you.
more food.
View attachment ZDDP older engines zddp.pdf
and a snack
View attachment ZDDP and Cam Wear - Just Another Engine Oil Myth.pdfView attachment ZDDP oil is killing our engines Oil.pdf

 

[Another Ahab]

G'day everyone,...

Though I come from a family of engineers mostly aeronautical but some automotive and have learned everything I know from them I don't claim to know everything, I still like to learn MORE!

Aussie.

Still learning here how about you.
more food.

Francisco de Goya (one of the finest artists of all of history), made this etching I think when he was in his 80's.

It can serve to inspire all of us "young" chickens! It's never too late to learn.

His inscription at the top translates from the Spanish as:

- "I am still learning"

 

[frank8003]

yeah, I just wanna know about lube oil and the best for a Deuce at this present time.