M35A3 CTIS Hub Seal Retainer

[glcaines]

While rebuilding one of the hubs on my M35A3, I discovered that one of my CTIS hub seal retainers was bent and battered. This was likely the cause of the seal failure. This is the retainer that holds the quad o-ring seal and each hub has two. It appears that someone in the military beat on the seal retainer in an effort to drive the outer roller bearing race out of the hub and either didn't succeed, or did succeed in removing it and then re-installed the damaged retainer ring. Erik's has been the most reliable source of hub parts for the CTIS on A3s, but I now find that Erik's is out of stock on this part and I can't find any other MV parts suppliers that stock this part. It appears that there is no civilian couonterpart. Aside from having a machine shop fabricate a new ring, does anyone have any suggestions for a supplier of A3 CTIS hub seal parts?

 

[gringeltaube]

Sure enough you read this... ?? http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/68488-parts-needed-m35a3-ctis.html#post826127

...might also try here: tdealmeida@cmautomotive.com

G.

 

[kilness]

You could try TNJ Murray. I have the same problem with gear oil leaking from the hollow stud. I hate to admit but I ordered the last ring from erik. Ordered 2 but he told me he only had 1 with no date on resupply, so I looked around and went to TNJ Murray and they had them. Not as quick on shipping but somewhat reasonably priced. It took about a little over a week to get the part. Hope this helps. I've been following your threads about this for some time hoping to follow the advice given in the posts. Good Luck.

 

[glcaines]

Sure enough you read this... ?? http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/68488-parts-needed-m35a3-ctis.html#post826127

...might also try here: tdealmeida@cmautomotive.com

G.

I don't know how I missed that post when I searched, I had even posted on it. After seeing it I remembered it. Terry McClanahan (American Outfitters) has a new telephone number - 619-390-4268. Terry is a very interesting guy and knows a lot about M35A3s. He was very helpful on the telephone, talking all about A3s. He actually delivered two A2s to AM Gemeral while A3s were being produced and had them converted to A3s while he watched the process.

 

[goodguyzy]

M35A3 | Military Vehicles For Sale | Military Trucks For Sale | M35 A2 | 5 Ton | M151 A1 A2 | Surplus Parts - TNJ Murray

is this it here

 

[glcaines]

Time for an update. I located new hub seal retainers. I removed both bearing races and hub seal retainers. I was amazed at the damage I found on the inner hub seal retainer, along with a small amount of damage to the inner surface of the hub itself. Someone in the Army really did a number on it. I was able to grind the roughness on the inner surface of the hub and polish it with emery cloth.. I used Permatex Right Stuff to seal the hub seal rings to the hub and pressed the bearing races back in. According to the TM I need to wait at least 12 hours prior to re-mounting the hub. I've attached some photos showing the damage to the hub seal retainer. I plan to reassemble everything tomorrow. Unfortunately, I will be leaving to work in China for 1 - 2 weeks on Sunday, so I won't be able to finish the truck completely until I return.

 

[kilness]

Thanks for the pictures. I've got the same problem. Maybe next weekend I'll tackle mine. Got everything except the permatex.

 

[glcaines]

Thanks for the pictures. I've got the same problem. Maybe next weekend I'll tackle mine. Got everything except the permatex.

Good luck with yours. It is actually not that difficult to work on. You should check out this thread. M35A3 rear wheel bearing packing, with photos I've spent most of my time waiting on parts to arrive. Unfortunately, I didn't know what I needed until I got it apart.

 

[kilness]

Good luck with yours. It is actually not that difficult to work on. You should check out this thread. M35A3 rear wheel bearing packing, with photos I've spent most of my time waiting on parts to arrive. Unfortunately, I didn't know what I needed until I got it apart.

Yes I have seen that thread. Did you take the the bearing out of the race or leave it all together and just force grease into the bearing like he did? What kind of grease aremyou using to repack?

 

[BKubu]

Great thread. Next to Terry McClanahan, Joe Czarnik (GIJOECZAR) is also about as knowledgeable as anyone on the M35A3s. Plus, he's a h*** of a nice guy. I suggest PMing him if anyone has questions about the A3s.

 

[glcaines]

Yes I have seen that thread. Did you take the the bearing out of the race or leave it all together and just force grease into the bearing like he did? What kind of grease aremyou using to repack?

One of my hub seal retainers (inner) was badly damaged by someone in the Army. I went ahead and replaced both the inner and outer. The hub seal retainers are held in place by the bearing races, so I had to drive out the bearing races with a brass drift. The inner race was a ***** to get out. The outer race was easier. Once out, I found out why the inner race was so difficult to remove - the machined surface in the hub was damaged, most likely at the same time the hub seal retainer was damaged. You should note that you do not have to replace the hub seal retainers to replace the square o-ring seals. I had to because of damage. I'll repack the roller bearings by hand with standard wheel bearing grease. You should also note that you should not remove the inner roller bearing. It has an integral seal, which is destroyed if you remove the bearing. Replacements are very expensive, if you can find them, $500.00 plus.

 

[kilness]

One of my hub seal retainers (inner) was badly damaged by someone in the Army. I went ahead and replaced both the inner and outer. The hub seal retainers are held in place by the bearing races, so I had to drive out the bearing races with a brass drift. The inner race was a ***** to get out. The outer race was easier. Once out, I found out why the inner race was so difficult to remove - the machined surface in the hub was damaged, most likely at the same time the hub seal retainer was damaged. You should note that you do not have to replace the hub seal retainers to replace the square o-ring seals. I had to because of damage. I'll repack the roller bearings by hand with standard wheel bearing grease. You should also note that you should not remove the inner roller bearing. It has an integral seal, which is destroyed if you remove the bearing. Replacements are very expensive, if you can find them, $500.00 plus.

I hope mine isn't damaged like yours. Wow, I tell ya, that CTIS system would be real nice if it wasn't so **** time consuming to deal with. I sure do appreciate your time explaining the details and answering the questions I had. They will definitely help. Good luck, and have a safe trip to china.

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Just so I'm clear on this, I have to remove the outer bearing race from the hub to replace the outer quad seal? In other words behind the outer bearing race there should be a quad seal and bearing seal retainer?

 

[glcaines]

Just so I'm clear on this, I have to remove the outer bearing race from the hub to replace the outer quad seal? In other words behind the outer bearing race there should be a quad seal and bearing seal retainer?

You need to remove the bearing race to remove the retainer. However, you should be able to replace the quad seal without removing the reainer, if the retainer is in good condition. It isn't hard to remove the bearing race with a brass drift if you need to. I had no choice because retainers were torn up. I bought new AM General OEM retainers with the quad seals already on them. The TM has excellent directions on how to do the whole thing. However, the TM says to remove the hub from the brake drum. This is not necessary and only creates more work. It's fine to leave them together if you keep everything clean.

 

[trukhead]

... You should also note that you should not remove the inner roller bearing. It has an integral seal, which is destroyed if you remove the bearing. Replacements are very expensive, if you can find them, $500.00 plus.

I have a take-out rear A3 axle from another's bob project. I had intended to strip it of it's A3 bearings, seals etc.

So from what your post says, it is a bad idea due to destroying a seal.
What seal is it?
Can the hub be removed from the axle with out destroying the seal?
Is the outer bearing outer race and the inner bearing outer race a slip fit in the hub?
Is the thought of removing all the bearings from the axle and keeping them for future use not possible without destruction of seals?

I found the thread mentioned prior to seeing this thread and was under the impression that all was removable without damage.
What did I miss?

Thaks for the thread!

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

I have a take-out rear A3 axle from another's bob project. I had intended to strip it of it's A3 bearings, seals etc.

So from what your post says, it is a bad idea due to destroying a seal.
What seal is it?
Can the hub be removed from the axle with out destroying the seal?
Is the outer bearing outer race and the inner bearing outer race a slip fit in the hub?
Is the thought of removing all the bearings from the axle and keeping them for future use not possible without destruction of seals?

I found the thread mentioned prior to seeing this thread and was under the impression that all was removable without damage.
What did I miss?

Thaks for the thread!

EDIT: I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

GLCAINES thanks a bunch for your reply, didnt really want to pull the hub apart.

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

New question GLcaines.... I had a shop drive out the outer race and of course screwed up the outer seal retainer in the process(looks like it's pretty much a given the seal retainer is going to get screwed up whenever you drive out the race).....I've got a new retainer w/quadring on the way. Anyway my question is how did YOU get the retainer off the race? I don't want to screw the race up. Did you just drive a screwdriver in the small crack between them?

I should've read a little better what you said.. Race didn't need to come out in the first place to replace the quad seal.....DOOH.....For some reason I was under the impression looking at it that it did......

Okay never mind....call me slow on the uptake here.....I was thinking the retainer was just a thin shell.... It's actually a bigger piece than I thought. Just a whack or two with a rubber mallet on the inside ledge and it basically falls out. I thought that ledge was part of the race.

 

[glcaines]

Make sure you follow the TM when installing the race and retainers. You need to seal the parts with adhesive to make everything air tight. I used Permatex Right Stuff, and it doesn't take much. I also used Right Stuff when sealing the cork plug. I used several small pieces of cork coated with the Right Stuff and it worked great.

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Make sure you follow the TM when installing the race and retainers. You need to seal the parts with adhesive to make everything air tight. I used Permatex Right Stuff, and it doesn't take much. I also used Right Stuff when sealing the cork plug. I used several small pieces of cork coated with the Right Stuff and it worked great.

That would be great if i could find the **** TM, I have about 18 of these things and can't figure out which one and where it's pertinent! LOL

Thank you again. I was wondering if the black RTV was factory or a grunt mechanics fun. Where did you get "right stuff"?

Okay found the TM I relabeled it found it under the wheel section.


Might explain why mines leaking, there was no rtv on 1. Apply a thin layer of adhesive to counterbore ledge of inner bearing cup (16) and outer bearing cup (1).