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M35A3 Gear Lube/CTIS Rear Axle Leak

RealCavDog

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Well Guys and Gals, after just over a week of new ownership and close to 600 miles of daily driving, Yertle the Turtle decided that things were going too good to be true from a GL truck and must have got pretty jealous when I picked up my buddy John and his 11 year old son to go to the "Guilty by Association Truck Show", sponsored by the Chrome Shop Mafia, (4 State Trucks), where he and I have both worked 3 different times each over the last 20 years !

Anyway, after about cruising all the chrome and custom paint, we took a break to head back to the "Anti-Chrome Mobile" just to check on it, as it was getting quite a bit of attention, and as we approached the passenger side, to our surprise, we both saw a slightly low tire and just a little bit of what was obviously fresh and clean gear lube spray on the tire of the front rear ! Also just a bit of clean clear lube pooled in the lip of the rim and a trickle from the axle flange ! Upon starting her up and checking the CTIS, I was shocked to see it flashing "FLAT", although all the others were at 45 PSI, and the right front rear was at 25-27 PSI !

Skip WAY ahead to airing up and holding pressure, return to show, recheck upon leaving, drive home to park for night, held pressure overnight, BUT more lube leaking pretty good !

After hours of searching threads here, M35A3, and Google, I referred to my trusty downloaded to a flash drive TM, compliments of Jatonka's website, and I must admit, still at a bit of a loss overall, but from what I can tell thus far,

1) Lube should not make it to the outer axle flange to be able to leak ? Due to the pressurized air system, and opposed to a standard axle that uses the gear lube to wet the outer bearings ? Am I mistaken and just need to reseal the axle flange ? (Which the bolts were surprisingly loose !)

2) O-Rings and quad seals may be the culprit ? Did not want to attempt the Axle flange reseal and run option described above due to the CRAZY pricing on the A3 bearings I have read about !

3) Lube and CTIS do not play well together ! (Not a question !)

4) This should be fixed before even driving her the 35 miles one way to the D-Day Rally on Friday, or would I be safe to button her back up , check the lube and short run her for 1 daytrip ? (suspect I know the answer, but NO lube in brake area !) Timing could not be worse due to working next 3 days, and no parts determined yet !

Now, if this has been covered previously, your referrals and direction will be gratefully accepted, but after an all day research binge, here I am open to suggestions !

The truck has been absolutely awesome up to this point, and I realize this is just a minor issue, but the information is a bit sparse in detail !

Thanks for ANY input Ya'll !

Jay
 

91W350

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Salina, Kansas
Hey Jay!

My new axle seals came in, you could always come up here and get a quick refresher in a simpler truck! I have a pair of leaking axle seals to fix on my 71. The 68 is still embarrassed about how fast you drove away from her.
8) Glen
 

RealCavDog

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AceHigh, thanks so much for the link, reread that again and checked my hollow stud and valve with a Q-tip and both dry as a bone, maybe a little vapor or dirt, so lucky there ! Thinking with all the part numbers and tips in his thread, I should just do an upgraded reseal , regrease all the bearings and do a full service on the differentials and recheck all the CTIS valves and fittings for peace of mind !


Glen ! Hope your better, and dont worry about the quick getaway, the top end slows the whole process down ! I swear that darn thing gets quicker every day, or I am just getting more used to those fast shift patterns ! I am still very happy with the truck, and getting my hands dirty with one of the more complicated systems on this A3 is just a part of paying my dues ! We both know how much worse it could be, and as far as a refresher course, I still KNOW a bobbed A2 with winch is in my future as a better option for in town driving and parking closer to civilization ! These rear hubs are pretty complex, and more so to keep them working with the CTIS !

All input welcome and the learning process is just a great way to keep the gray matter between my ears firing on all cylinders !
 

RealCavDog

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Yep ! Trying to be optimistic about the whole deal, but not getting much input about the whole thing from folks that have been through it, but then again, it has only been a few hours on a Sunday night ! Think I will try and expand my search a little bit !

Will try to copy and paste my issue and see what I can find out.

The A3 certainly has a specialized following due to its low production numbers and more complicated systems, but that was part of the appeal !

Certainly see the beauty and simplicity of the A2 from a maintenance perspective and just pure numbers for parts availability !
 

RealCavDog

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Joplin, Missouri
The TM updates list a quad ring replacing the standard o-rings, and a post from Motomacguyver listed some awesome parts sources for several types of seals !

At least that is a good starting point !
 

motomacguyver

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Eau Claire, Wi. USA
look here;

Parts to have on hand when changing out tires, servicing brakew and ctis

Differencial Lube Leaking From Hollow Stud

#1 I don't believe lube should make it to the outer bearings. This is indicative of bad seals, bad cork keyway plugs or gear lube leaking thru the treads on the axle shaft.

#2 IF the seals OR the bearings were installed incorrectly, you will probably have to replace the seal retainers. (They are the same as the Humvee ones) The bearings may show signs of galling on the Quattro seal surface. THIS CAN AND NEEDS TO BE FIXED. Fine emery cloth, and chuck the bearing up in a lathe to polish these surfaces. Then ultrasonically clean the bearings to get all of the grit out of them. (Remember the best price I have seen for new bearings is 700$, clean it well)

#3 Correct, CTIS honking is due to excessive pressure left over when the system tries to purge the air lines to 0 PSI. Probably wheel valves not shutting correctly, which can be caused by lube in the wheel valves.

#4 no comment.
 

RealCavDog

New member
579
12
0
Location
Joplin, Missouri
look here;

Parts to have on hand when changing out tires, servicing brakew and ctis

Differencial Lube Leaking From Hollow Stud

#1 I don't believe lube should make it to the outer bearings. This is indicative of bad seals, bad cork keyway plugs or gear lube leaking thru the treads on the axle shaft.

#2 IF the seals OR the bearings were installed incorrectly, you will probably have to replace the seal retainers. (They are the same as the Humvee ones) The bearings may show signs of galling on the Quattro seal surface. THIS CAN AND NEEDS TO BE FIXED. Fine emery cloth, and chuck the bearing up in a lathe to polish these surfaces. Then ultrasonically clean the bearings to get all of the grit out of them. (Remember the best price I have seen for new bearings is 700$, clean it well)

#3 Correct, CTIS honking is due to excessive pressure left over when the system tries to purge the air lines to 0 PSI. Probably wheel valves not shutting correctly, which can be caused by lube in the wheel valves.

#4 no comment.

TWO, very informative threads that really have some great tips and input from voices of experience ! That parts source is great, and the install tips are just what I needed to tie in with the TM instructions !


Thanks for all the help , and I am glad that I at least had the diagnosis correct, it was the correct fix that had me a bit stumped , and now know what to REALLY look for when I get inside a bit deeper !

Feeling pretty good about the situation now !

Jay
 

RealCavDog

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Joplin, Missouri
All was going good until I pulled the double seal o-rings, quad rings, x-rings, all the same name for the same part, from the seal retainers and saw that they were much smaller than the 90025K396 or dash 238 seals that I ordered from McMaster Carr !

Could somebody check the number on thier order form or reciept and verify that number ! All ready to go back together , but the I.D. on my old rings are about 3.075 and the new ones are about 3.50 !

Other than this hiccup, the whole pcocess is very straight forward and NO NEED to seperate the hub and drum ! Had to work 21 days straight, and thought I had all the parts ready to go . . . . oh well ! The old rings look great under magnification, and I think the recurring issue of under torqued axle nuts may have been the issue, but a bit hesitant to cut corners !
__________________
 
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BadMastard

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I had the same problem with the xrings I got! We had better check and see if there is another part number for them. Fortunately all my xrings were good, but I'm thinking I'm going to need some sooner or later.
 

RealCavDog

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Location
Joplin, Missouri
O.K. ! After a busy afternoon of research, again, I cleaned up the old trusty dial micrometer, measured, researched, measured again, then compared all the available charts, MEASURED AGAIN ! . . . . and here is what I think I need !

The newly ordered x-rings I ordered fit around the originals with a very little bit of free play, and after all the measuring and comparing and number crunching . . . the very closest and what I believe to be the actual needed part number looks to be the following from the McMaster-Carr website.


AS568A Dash Number 235 , dimensions as follows ; 3 1/8 X 3 3/8 , Fractional , OR , 3.109 X 3.387 , Actual

Will edit to add actual part number in a bit after I convert it, hate to lose this info while researching !

90025K467 $6.81 for a pack of 10 ! Plus shipping ! Hope this is it, Has to be much closer than the others, and as close as I could find from ANY source on the web !
 
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